Miraculous Ladybug Plot Holes
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What Redditors are SayingPlot Holes in "Miraculous Ladybug"
Inconsistencies in Character Actions and Plot
One of the recurring criticisms is the inconsistency in character actions and plot development. For instance, Gabriel Agreste's motivations fluctuate between wanting world domination and bringing his wife back to life, often without clear reasoning 
[3:5]. Similarly, Lila's lies are easily disproven yet continue to be believed by other characters, which seems implausible given her cunning reputation [5:2]. Alya's trust in Lila despite knowing Marinette's identity as Ladybug also raises questions about character logic [5:8].
Power Dynamics and Miraculous Abilities
The show presents inconsistencies in the portrayal of miraculous powers. The Butterfly Miraculous is depicted as more powerful than others, contradicting its supposed equivalence with other minor miraculous [2:1]. Additionally, the power-ups for Ladybug and Chat Noir seem arbitrary and lack clear limitations, leading to moments that feel like plot conveniences rather than well-developed storylines [3:2].
Plot Convenience and Lack of Strategy
Several plot holes arise from convenient resolutions or lack of strategic thinking by the characters. For example, Hawkmoth repeatedly akumatizes Mr. Pigeon despite his consistent failures, instead of revisiting plans that nearly succeeded [5:4]. Moreover, Ladybug and Chat Noir rarely attempt proactive strategies to uncover Hawkmoth's identity or stop him at the source [5:5].
Balance and Equivalent Exchange
A significant plot hole involves Gabriel's wish at the end of Season 5. The concept of balance requires an equivalent exchange, yet Gabriel's wish to bring Emilie back does not seem to demand a sufficient trade-off [4:7]. This undermines the established rules of the universe and leaves viewers questioning the logic behind such pivotal moments [4:11].
Quantum Masking and Identity Revelation
The quantum masking intended to protect identities fails when Felix uncovers Shadow Moth's identity through mere observation, defying the established mechanics of identity protection [5:10]. This plot convenience diminishes the narrative tension and raises questions about the consistency of magical rules within the series.
These plot holes highlight areas where "Miraculous Ladybug" could improve its storytelling by ensuring consistency in character behavior, logical progression of events, and adherence to its own established rules.
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POST SUMMARY • [1]Summarize
(The Ruler Spoilers) This was so forced
Posted by Capable_Toe_9293 · in r/miraculousladybug · 5 months ago
ORIGINAL POSTThis episode honestly had a good plot, but there are some things that are concerning. For one, the writers seem to be deliberately making Lila lose even though she basically won in this episode.
Sequence of events
Cat Noir gets hit by Ruler's staff
Lila tells Ruler - "Order Cat Noir to get Ladybug's Miraculous"
Ruler IMMEDIATELY, in the next very scene, orders Cat Noir to do just that
Ladybug gets hit by Ruler's staff
Lila tells Ruler "Ask Ladybug and Cat Noir to give you their Miraculous"
Ruler: "Now you guys will be set straight"
Then Nathaniel whacks her with the cane.
As you can see, if Ruler had done what Lila had said like she had ALREADY done with Cat Noir, they would have given Ruler their miraculous. Even if Nathaniel had gotten control of Ruler, they would have taken them off by that point, and Lila would have discovered who they were and gotten their Miraculous pretty quickly. In other words the writers purposefully made Ruler say some banter when we had already seen she was perfectly capable for following Lila's orders. Smh. I'm still counting this as Lila's third win, after her two subsequent wishes in the London Special.
Well duh they’re deliberately making Lila lose, we clearly aren’t at a point in the story where she’s supposed to win. They could’ve written the scene to have The Ruler defeated before she had the opportunity to give any commands to Ladybug, but where would be the fun in that? It’ll probably save you a lot of trouble if you hold off on expecting any of Lila’s akumas to be victorious, at least before the final episodes of the season.
Yeah I understand your point, but their writing actions have consequences. Not many people will draw the true conclusion you did and instead will chalk it up for making Cat Noir look like a fool or Lila look incompetent. They just should’ve written it in a more understandable way.
I agree tbh. Making a villain deliberately lose despite them clearly being on the verge of winning shows a lack of writing skill. If the only reason an antagonist loses is because they intentionally are written to wait around for no reason to give the heroes a shot, then it feels less like a heroic victory and more like a lucky break. And it's not like that's how these types of moments are gonna be looked back on by the characters AS lucky breaks, they'll just see it as typical wins.
So yeah, it just feels very contrived and forced, like the writers couldn't think of a way to make The Ruler lose in a way where they were legitimately outsmarted or outplayed, but instead lost because they HAD to lose.
Meh. I think most people will “chalk it up” as simply a close call, rather than Cat Noir being a fool or Lila being incompetent. We’ve seen their strong capabilities throughout the series and can easily brush this off as a mistake they made which is completely okay because mistakes are okay to make!!
They also make the show more entertaining and it’s really not that deep imo 😅😅😅
Yeah Chat Noir got hit maaaany times by villains especially in the earlier seasons to spice things up but it is getting old If he's not contributing to the fight at all in any meaningful way then I would rather see Adrien just chilling at home or something
Gabriel also had close calls. Also, after this episode, I’m starting to think that Lila isn’t actually Chrysalis. In this episode and Climatiqueen, Chrysalis doesn’t sound like Lila at all. Notably on the English dub of Climatiqueen Chrysalis distinctly has two different voices, a man’s voice and a woman’s voice. Yes, I think Lila is behind everything, but I don’t think she is actually using Nooroo at this point. I didn’t believe in the team aspect before, but I am starting to believe it now.
I guess, but I feel that’ll only really impact some of the more avid watchers who pay more mind to the exact choreography of the fights. This was a mostly character-driven episode, so they probably weren’t focus testing the fight scene to the point of making sure it was completely flawless. Maybe I only speak for myself here, but I was much more invested in Caprikid being in the spotlight, than the battle IQ of Ladybug, Cat Noir and Lila.
>As you can see, if Ruler had done what Lila had said like she had ALREADY done with Cat Noir, they would have given Ruler their miraculous.
Lila: I am surrounded by idiots...
It's the same way they forced Lila to get to her position, thd plot controls all
I fear this is a common theme in superhero shows or just media about heroes in general
I mean yes, but this happens in nearly all media where someone will pause or draw things out just long enough for someone to save the day. Or even to thwart the heroes, remember how twice they had Monarch with all the Miraculous at their mercy and always drew things out so he could escape instead of immediately pulling Miraculous off him.
r/miraculousladybug • [2]Summarize
[Discussion] Plot Holes and discrepancies in general.
Posted by CurtisMarauderZ · in r/miraculousladybug · 6 years agoThere are a few of these besides the obvious "why did they do that instead of the obvious thing" moments.
My favorites are the inconsistencies with Gabriel's circumstances with the butterfly miraculous.
-How did he learn to evil-ise stuff when he doesn't seem to have any real experience with magic? Even if he could translate the Miraculous tome, (which he can't) why would that be in there?
-How did he just "find" a insanely powerful magical artifact (possibly two) overseas that were lost over a hundred years in a disaster at the Guardians temple (most likely an attack exactly to obtain those artifacts)?
-In the wide superhero Zag-world why would the Miraculous wish be the *only* thing that could bring back Emilie?
I'm actually hoping this is foreshadowing and not just lazy writing, that someone gave him the miraculous, taught him evil-isation, and led him to believe that he *had* to find the Ladybug and Black Cat, and possibly had something to do with Emilie's current state.
> -How did he learn to evil-ise stuff when he doesn't seem to have any real experience with magic? Even if he could translate the Miraculous tome, (which he can't) why would that be in there?
Chat knew about his Cataclysm despite not being told (at least as far as I remember), and I'm pretty sure Nino and Ayla weren't given much of a guide on how to use their powers either before they used them. I think it goes back to how the qwami and their holders share a bit of information and affect the personalities of each other. Creating akumas is just the default power of the moth miraculous as far as we've seen and I think 'evil-ise' is just his term for it. From what we've been told, he's just infusing them with power, not actually making them evil. It's just his choice to go after those with negative emotions, probably because they're easier to control/influence.
> -How did he just "find" a insanely powerful magical artifact (possibly two) overseas that were lost over a hundred years in a disaster at the Guardians temple (most likely an attack exactly to obtain those artifacts)?
He mentioned the tome was a gift from his wife and I think it's implying that she was the one that gave him the miraculous as well. Of course this could just be a lie so that him becoming the Collector, and thus isn't Hawk Moth, is more believable, but till they say otherwise I think that's what they're trying to imply.
It is pretty coincidental that all the miraculous end up in the same city again though, but I could maybe buy it that one of the qwami was able to roughly sense where they might be like Wayzz could sense Nooru activating again.
> -In the wide superhero Zag-world why would the Miraculous wish be the only thing that could bring back Emilie?
I mean it might not be, but it might just be the only way HM knows of so far. Remember that he never translated the tome so he obviously doesn't know all the powers.
I view that he's an artist and the akuma are his art. He mentions Style Queen is his magnum opus which backs this up. I mean she wasn't the most powerful akuma he'd created so he was obviously referring to some other aspect. I think he's just come to enjoy this game more than he'd like to admit and might even be a little should it ever end.
>Creating akumas is just the default power of the moth miraculous as far as we've seen and I think 'evil-ise' is just his term for it. From what we've been told, he's just infusing them with power, not actually making them evil.
It doesn't seem like the evil part is a natural part of his power, especially with the similar power in New York that happened in the comics, where something else was similarly corrupted with evil (and ladybug could purify it). It could still be just that it is just a different way of using it but most miraculous abilities thus far have been fairly specific, this seeming like a deliberate corruption, and not something someone would just "figure out".
>He mentioned the tome was a gift from his wife and I think it's implying that she was the one that gave him the miraculous as well.
I agree here, but does that mean Emilie is connected to that disaster over 100 years ago that separated the miraculous? If she is in on it why is she in her current state? If not did someone give her the miraculous? I still can't believe that they just *ended up* with them, and no one in over 100 years found and kept them in the meanwhile, especially if the temple was actually attacked for them in the first place. Maybe both miraculous somehow fell down some stupid large crevice and they found them down there ages later, but it's still weird.
Again I could agree that Fu could be in Paris because he tracked them down via some sensing or something, but it could go the other way too and it was set up as it was.
>I mean it might not be, but it might just be the only way HM knows of so far.
Again maybe, but a millionaire with international connections around the world could do some research or make some contacts? Why fixate on one thing when your desperate for a cure, unless someone credible told you it was the only thing that would work? Again they could just leave it, but it wouldn't be as interesting in terms of writing.
Also one more thing, someone being responsible for Emilie's condition would give a way for bringing her back without the cure. Once a villain is defeated the Miraculous can fix *any* damage done by the villain, including to Emilie.
nah style queen could turn people, attack with rays, teleport herself and teleport people, and she was untouchable. She really was his most powerful akuma, maybe just not the best to retrieve miraculous
Inconsistencies with the exposition/lore: Ladybug and Cat Miraculouses are said to be the most powerful, with the Butterfly placed on the same level as the Turtle, Bee, Fox, and Peacock. Yet the Butterfly surpasses these - it has successfully replicated the powers of the Ladybug and Cat, and replicated and removed the limit of the powers of the Fox and Bee, with the former not even requiring the real Miraculous as a base. It can even feedback-loop its own powers, as we've seen in Catalyst. Plus, the akumatization has not been shown to have a timer (requiring refeeding a kwami in between uses). Even if, as some say, the countdown triggers once the akuma has been purified, that's different from how the others' timers function (see Anansi, where Chat Noir's countdown starts when he activates Cataclysm, not when he uses it).
Furthermore, it regularly takes the two most powerful Miraculouses, plus the occasional third (and more, in the feedback-loop case), to oppose it - and even then, it's a stalemate, one that's in the Butterfly wielder's favor, as he can lose infinitely as long as he stays hidden and he chooses the time of attacks - the guerrilla's advantage. The heroes have to win every time.
counterpoint: master fu said many times that the ladybug and chat noir miraculous are only invincible when used together. also, they are the most powerful miraculous but marinette and adrien have not reached their full potential yet, while gabriel reached the peak potential of the moth miraculous on catalyst, as stated by master fu.
also, the moth miraculous has limits, the akumas are not under hawkmoth's control, but just highly open to his suggestions and hawkmoth's powers are usually to give powers, whcih means his akumas can be hella powerful, but that is not his power
While I agree that yes, the two Miraculouses used together must be more powerful than the Butterfly, Nooroo in Origins described them both as "more powerful than the others", in phrasing that suggests that individually they are supposed to be more powerful. Their placement in the box would also suggest that they are on a different level than the Butterfly, while the Butterfly's placement suggests that it is supposed to be equivalent to the Fox, Bee, Turtle, and Peacock - yet the way its powers function is inconsistent with that.
The power still comes from the Butterfly Miraculous - it has near infinite potential in the powers it can give out. One might argue that Ladybug also has near infinite potential in what she receives from the Lucky Charm power, but she doesn't have the luxury of being able to try again and again if she fails to utilize it correctly (and she has a timer on it). Furthermore, she can't feedback-loop like Papillon can (by the very nature of granting powers, he can grant powers to someone to grant powers. Ladybug cannot use Lucky Charm to give someone else the power to use Lucky Charm. Same with Chat Noir and Cataclysm).
You say that the Butterfly Miraculous seems to be more powerful than the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous. Even though the Miraculous Ladybug repair all the damage done by the villain, including correcting time itself. I'd say that's at least equivalent power, and we also haven't seen the true power of the Ladybug Miraculous like we have the Butterfly and the Cat. Plagg, apparently destroyed the dinosaurs with Cataclysm, as well as a fair amount of the foundation of Paris in Style Queen. Chat Noir's cataclysm must be scaled back quite a bit to be more useful and less, well cataclysmic.
Yes, the Ladybug can repair all the damage done, but in Sandboy, on top of creating all sorts of other nightmares and removing the real Ladybug's powers, the villain was able to create an entity that had the same functionality - it was Nightmare!Ladybug's Lucky Charm (something that was, ultimately, derived from the Butterfly's power) that Ladybug used to restore the city, not her own. Copycat was also, as far as we can tell, able to replicate Chat Noir's Cataclysm equally well.
The kwamis being more powerful/uncontrolled than when used through the wielders makes sense. Some of their energy likely goes into maintaining the transformation. Comparing Plagg's raw power with Papillon's controlled power isn't a fair comparison, however.
Lila. How long has she been out of school? At least a month? And she's managed to intercept the principal's call every single time? I don't buy that.
And while we're on the subject, her debut episode had weird discrepancies. She tells Adrien that she's descended from a fox superheroine named Volpina. Later shows up as a fox superheroine named Volpina. Neither Ladybug nor Chat Noir show any sign of hearing the name before despite both hearing her use it earlier. This isn't just the "people are blind" thing, it's like they forgot she said it at all. (And the "blindness" generally hasn't applied to the akumatized people either)
Not even just an experience thing. One drawback I can think of to the Butterfly, though, are the powerups- Gabriel tells Nooroo in "Syren" that he wants those powers, but... the butterfly isn't as hands on as the other miraculous. Outside of very specific circumstances, the powerups we've seen would be superfluous for a Butterfly.
Then of course there's the working theory that Ladybug and Chat Noir haven't seen the full scope of their abilities- heck, Hawky hadn't considered a 'feedback loop' until two seasons in.
Last but not least, let's remember the miraculous' powers aren't limited to Lucky Charm and Cataclysm. The two combined can grant wishes at a cost, and we've seen what Plagg can do outside of the ring. The wish alone makes them more powerful than the Butterfly, and Gabriel, who's been chasing them two seasons now, counts each Akuma beaten a defeat.
The discontinuous, nonlinear storytelling style makes it difficult to build things up. Plot points therefore have to be introduced and resolved within an episode, and repetition is substituted for build-up. This leads to discrepancies such as Adrien never being allowed to leave the house...in some episodes. Most episodes he has no problem going to hang out with his friends (even last minute, like Animan), but whenever they want to go back to Agreste drama, suddenly it's as though Gabriel never lets him leave the house, and it's implied to be a regular thing. The result is rather jarring.
Gabriel in general is characterized very inconsistently. In Queen Wasp, we are given a man who is so desperate to save his wife that he's turned to villainy that wears down at him. Sandboy gives a very different picture, of a cruel, abusive man who seeks power (the way he treats Nooroo, and how he addressed the other kwamis). Not that these are mutually exclusive necessarily, but the way it's executed is choppy and inconsistent.
Worse still, is his concern over Adrien. Because we're talking within episodes here. Style Queen - he seems upset that Adrien got turned into a statue. Says zilch when she starts dissolving Adrien - which is worse. Riposte, similar situation - stops her from attacking Adrien when he's on the street. When she goes for the sarcophagus, not a word, not the slightest attempt to stop her.
Tl;dr Gabriel Agreste is an inconsistent villain
r/miraculousladybug • [3]Summarize
What are some of the plot holes and inconsistency in this show miraculous ladybug?
Posted by Shiny_sparkle · in r/miraculousladybug · 3 years agoI think the overall problem of miraculous ladybug is one and that is inconsistency (inconsistent airing dates, character behavior, plot holes etc.) other the show is all well and great. It's a very nice show.
So,
What are some of the plot holes and inconsistency in this show?
For me its LB and SM power ups (no limits, mega akuma? seriously?) and definitely Chat noir (writers did him dirty) (There are more but I stop)
(Try to give more from s4 please. I want to know)
The new "upgrades" that the heroes have. They just... have to belive hard enough and they'll get an upgrade. That sounds like a plot convince. Especially Ladybug, Rena Rouge just said: "Yeah, you can create whatever the heck you want." And wow, Magical Charms! They were relevant for 15 episodes. Gabriel can already break them.
The whole identity rule thing. Ladybug was repeating how Kagami can never be Ryoku again, same with Chloe. But suddenly, she uses the same heroes again? And Shadow Moth knows their identities and does nothing? Gabriel is dumb.
Felix being super smart out of nowhere and >!figuring out Shadow Moth's identity for 2 minutes!<. Quantum masking is supposed to be a thing. And yet, he just knew. The writers should have given more focus to that.
>Especially Ladybug, Rena Rouge just said: "Yeah, you can create whatever the heck you want." And wow, Magical Charms!
Yes Ladybug you can create anything if you try harder. So why don't you, I don't know, create something that will help you defeat Shadow Moth or create something that will at least help you track him down. What? A bit too difficult? Why not train yourself? What's stopping ?!
Rena was correct, they themselves are the limit.
​
>Felix being super smart out of nowhere
In that episode Felix got all the braincells that everyone in the show was lacking
Cat Noir is a plot hole? Haha!
For me, the main problem is the pacing, and the pacing in S4 in particular. This season they're trying to do both the one-akumatized-villain-per-episode thing and simultaneously develop plot lines and characters over multiple episodes. It is a good thing, of course, but the length of the episodes is so short that it kneecaps a lot of the plot lines. Things get mentioned and then forgotten several episodes in a row, important conversations seem to have happened off-screen, and points that develop the plot happen in such a hurried manner, it seems like a summary of what happened, rather than the real thing.
Overal, I think the writers are doing what they can with the limited time of each episode, but it's a pity. There's a lot of good stuff happening in S4, I wish they had the time to properly tell it.
>Cat Noir is a plot hole? Haha!
No, CN is not a plot hole, but his execution is inconsistent. His screen time gets cut off for sake of Rena Rouge and he is made useless for comic relief. And after watching Ephemeral I'm worried they might drop Chat Noir's angst story line in the middle (wouldn't be the first). I really hope we do get it in the later episode, But who knows.
​
>For me, the main problem is the pacing, and the pacing in S4 in particular. This season they're trying to do both the one-akumatized-villain-per-episode thing and simultaneously develop plot lines and characters over multiple episodes. It is a good thing, of course, but the length of the episodes is so short that it kneecaps a lot of the plot lines. Things get mentioned and then forgotten several episodes in a row, important conversations seem to have happened off-screen, and points that develop the plot happen in such a hurried manner, it seems like a summary of what happened, rather than the real thing.
Whatever you have typed above, you have typed the absolute truth.
It would have been nice if they break the story thread into different episode rather compile it all in one episode. This way the limited time problem would be solved and there would be no need to make filler episodes to fill the slot.
Guess it can't be help. There must be an issue and the writers must be restricted by a lot of things.
​
>Overal, I think the writers are doing what they can with the limited time of each episode, but it's a pity. There's a lot of good stuff happening in S4, I wish they had the time to properly tell it.
Ikr.
>No, CN is not a plot hole, but his execution is inconsistent. His screen
time gets cut off for sake of Rena Rouge and he is made useless for
comic relief. And after watching Ephemeral
I'm worried they might drop Chat Noir's angst story line in the middle
(wouldn't be the first). I really hope we do get it in the later
episode, But who knows.
Yeah, I got it, I got it. It's just that the phrasing made me laugh.
I'm reserving judgement for now, because we still have one episode left between Ephemeral and the rest, so his frustrations might be addressed in this episode. Maybe. In Ephemeral the dialogue seemed to reference a previous conversation between him and LB that we definitely haven't seen yet. It isn't even that I cannot imagine his feeling side-lined getting resolved pretty quickly - but I really feel it should be addressed on-screen and not off it.
As for the Rena Rouge stuff... It makes sense to me that they're trying expand the MLB universe/lore thingie and that includes fleshing out characters properly and giving them plot lines. I cannot fault the writers with that and I think Sentibubbler was really good, it's just that... I really don't care about any other characters besides LB and CN. So, I understand why they're speinding time on another character, I think they're doing a good job, and I couldn't care less about it. Much rather watch LB and CN bicker all the time. As far as I'm concerned, the entire show (well, I'm also getting a bit invested in the Agreste family dynamics now) rests on the chemistry between CN and LB, whether as romantic partners or just teammates, or both.
Gabriels feelings for adrien. Most of the times he gives no f and then completely random he suddenly remembers he has a son
Gabriels motives: "i want world domination" "i want my wife back" "i will create a whole new universe to my liking"
Adrien being smart: he made the connection between marinette and ladybug twice and he subconciously seems to be more aware of it, but still was surprised when it actually was marinette
The swt up for the rival ships: we know that kagami and luka were in lovr with adrien/mari while they were still in love with each other and basically just started dating them because lb rejected cn, adrien tried to move on to kagami, just because she told him to change targets and he was like "she is cute so why not" which resulted in him asking marinette for help with kagami, which lead to marinette giving luka a go. And after they broke up marinette ended up crying mostly because of her inability to date in the first place while adrien was like "shit happens this is awkward" Same for maris friends who supported her with adrien all the time, then saw that she was attracted to luka, helped there a bit, then didn't care and went back to ship adrienette. Business as usual
I don't really mind the inconsistency with character development to be honest, it makes it more realistic to me. Character developement is not a one way road: there are always fall backs and we have to remember that they are kids with lots on their plates and everything in the series happens in less than a year.
And i personally don't think the writers did cn dirty
>The swt up for the rival ships:
While Kagami and Luka were great character I never really understood the purpose of them in the whole love square story. Sure there were present to add drama and to also show that at the end its Adrien and Marinette that are made for each other, but I don't think it was executed well. There really was no competition/rivalry for love interest like the way Marinette had with Chloe or Lila. Marinette was a bit jealous of Kagami but that's it, they become good friends and Kagami turned out the nicest person ever and Marinette even helped get her back to Adrien. There was no competition between Adrien and Luka(not that they needed to fight). Forget that Luka was there to make Marinette confuse over her choosing Adrien and Luka, she always gets back to Adrien.
Heck the only reason Adrien's and Marinette's previous relationship didn't work was because they were superheroes otherwise they would have worked. Not sure how that shows Adrien and Marinette are meant for each other.
(Although side note had Marinette and Adrien were not chosen to become Ladybug and Chat Noir, They would have become a couple much before Alya and Nino did. They would have be ridiculous been adorable and lovey - dovey ...... and they would get akumatized because old Gab wanted to akumatized Marinette which prompted Adrien to get akumatized and they both destroy the world so they could be together)
​
>I don't really mind the inconsistency with character development to be honest, it makes it more realistic to me. Character developement is not a one way road: there are always fall backs and we have to remember that they are kids with lots on their plates and everything in the series happens in less than a year.
While realistic it does make sense, one can't help but notice how their personality is drastically changed just for the sake of the plot of that episode and to drive the story of the episode. It can't go amiss, it's so clearly evident.
​
>And i personally don't think the writers did cn dirty
Good for you if you don't see it like that way. But for me I can clearly see that he has been made useless and his screen time was cut short.
(And before anyone mention that these things are happening to CN to build up the upcoming angst, let me tell you, You do not build an angst by cutting there screen time short)
there's so many that I'll probably come back to edit this comment later as I remember more. so, let's see...
- LB saying it was dangerous to keep Miraculous with people whose identities were known by Hawk Moth, but then in S4, completely ignoring that rule and having a team full of heroes with exposed identities
Ladybug's tendency to flirt back with Cat Noir
Gabriel
his whole character
- old villains' returns. Always unpredictable whether they'll have new powers or receive a sentimonster or if they're gonna be a completely new villain...
- the whole timeline of the show. It's a big nonsense. I personally don't mind it tho
- Shadow Moth deciding to use an amok
- for 3 seasons, akumas looked like they needed to be in direct contact with people to akumatize them. So much that they even forced characters to be holding objects whenever it was an akumatization of 2+ people (Sapotis, Trio of Punishers...)
Then, suddenly, in S4, they can enter objects that are just near a person and still akumatize them???
- the magic ladybugs. Sometimes they bring people to the exact spot they were before they were hit by a villain's power, but sometimes they don't
- the Eiffel Tower's placement in S1 and 2
- Gabriel's appearance in contrast to Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth's. They were very clearly not modeled with the knowledge they're the same person. Their heads are of different size and in some countries, he even has a very different voice for both of his character
- the animation quality. Especially in Season 4. It's not the worst. The worst was in S2, definitely. But S4 is easily the most inconsistent
- Ladybug and Cat Noir's competence. They can fight against villains, that on concept, seems strong asf, like Furious Fu, but then struggle against... Wishmaker? His attack pattern was trash. Corner him and take his weapon. It shouldn't be that difficult.
their struggles often feel like it's just because the plot demands
- Kwamis' awareness?
there have been scenes in the show that make it look like kwamis are NOT aware of what happens while their holders are transformed, but there are other scenes that DO make it look like they know and saw it
this is of major importance, but it's unfortunately a plot hole. Sass should absolutely know that Luka has knowledge of Ladybug's identity and tell her
- Ladybug's new suit. Thomas said it appeared because it symbolizes her "new ability to create magical charms". But technically, she could have done it since the beggining, so it's not a new ability
- Akumatization requirements. Gabriel is able to akumatize Nathalie into Catalyst, even though she had no negative emotions (in fact, she looked happy). And from what they said in the episode (and at the end of Anansi), it looked like they were planning the events of Heroes' Day for some time
so this tells us what? That Gabriel could actually CHOOSE WHEN to akumatize Nathalie and WHAT WOULD BE HER POWERS??? Why? That was ridiculous
I love Wishmaker, because of Adrien's development and Luka giving advices to both protagonists, but the fight was super rushed. Like, Wishmaker hit LB and CN like nobody's business only for Luka to learn their identities. Many episodes in season 4 have the exact same problem, they're so freaking rushed!!
Ladybug often flirts back and now it's a problem only for Glaciator 2? Especially after she said that she loves the teasing and jokes from Chat Noir? The way she was looking at him in Optigami was like they were a couple. And now, she's suddenly mad at him? And Chat Noir hasn't flirted with LB that much compared to session 1. LB throwing him in the garbage can was so random and out of nowhere. I like Marinette, but her character is a mess... so many things in this show are a mess. At least Glaciator 2 gave Chat Noir decent development.
>Wishmaker hit LB and CN like nobody's business only for Luka to learn their identities. Many episodes in season 4 have the exact same problem, they're so freaking rushed!!
I totally agree with you!
​
>Ladybug often flirts back and now it's a problem only for Glaciator 2? Especially after she said that she loves the teasing and jokes from Chat Noir?
Look, first of all those are just banters. LB doesn't flirts and in Glaciator 2 she had valid reason to be mad and not because CN was flirting with her but because he was annoying her. She herself said it that it was fine for him to call her m'lady and simply wanted for him to stop annoying at times.
Come on now, a freaking whole city put multiple billboard of her kissing a guy she doesn't like (according to her). all are so heavy investing in shipping her with CN when her was fighting and instead of getting support from her partner he is begging her kiss in the middle of a battle (There is a time and place for it!)
The one who was really out of character was Chat Noir. He is a gentleman, isn't he? A guy who asks for permission before kissing in Oblivio but can't say sorry when she voices her problems with him.
And her throwing him to the bin (there was no basket) was really all just a gag. Come on now, the writers thought that showing us the statue scene from puppeteer 2 would be funny (big failure there). More proof that you have to watch this show with a suspension of disbelief at a level of watching Tom & Jerry.
And I'm not surprised with the LB behave especially after see her punching Felix on the face when he was being so pushy. When Marinette gets angry she is blows up.
Gabriel only akumatizes people with negative emotions because they are easier to manipulate
He definitely is mentally unstable and i do like his different reactions to him finding out that he is cn, even though he always ends up sacrificing adrien for emilie. I just think it's weird that sometimes he is like "i have to stop being hawkmoth for adriens sake" then "fuck adrien" "protect adrien" "see what a man can do that has nothing to lose!" and then he is suddenly like "oh i can't akumatize my son, he has to come home and i will tell him i am there for him when he is miserable"
It's like a roller-coaster, the dude must be bipolar af
r/miraculousladybug • [4]Summarize
The ending has a major plot hole
Posted by LianaLovesgaming · in r/miraculousladybug · 2 years agoAfter watching the last episode storyboard, I realized there's a major plot hole in it. At the end of s5, Gabriel manages to get Ladybug and Chat Noir's Miraculous' and is asked what his wish is. However, he's told that there has to be balance in the universe and that his wish comes with a cost, that for instance if he wants garden peas to be red then strawberries would have to be green. In this perspective, this specific wish is a literal trade, both of them just swapping colors.
So when Gabe asks to bring Emelie back, he's asked what he trades in return and he offers up his own life. Like above, this is technically a literal trade, trading his 'life' for Emelie's death... But there's a huge issue that everyone is overlooking, Gabriel is literally dying. Because he got cataclysmed earlier in the season, his body is getting destroyed and he literally says he doesn't have long left to live.
So when he offers up his life for Emelie (accepting her death in return), he actually isn't saving her because despite basically giving her his life, he doesn't have long left which means that she wouldn't have long left either. He's trading what's left of his life for her death. Obviously it's cartoon logic and this isn't gonna go anywhere but it's something I realized.
I heard somewhere that he isn't trading his life for Emilies but more offering his life as pay so that the Peacock Miraculous would never be damaged making all the people that died due to it come back to life.
Hence, why Nathalie and Emilie both are fine and well in the final.
On one hand, that handles the girls, on the other that would save also Felix's father >!that piece of shit. On one hand it will bring the drama but on the other he's literally such a piece of shit.. and I say it as someone who likes Gabriel. Though, I would like to see what his company was going (apparently some weaponry) and what part would he play among rich people. I only hope that maybe Felix moves into Adrien's place and Colt stays somewhere else!<
Then another miraculous should be damaged to pay instead
And on top of that more people would have to fall ill instead of Emelie and Nathalie, >!and Felix's dad if he's revived.!<
It still doesn't make sense. The wish demands an equivalent exchange. So if he wished for the peacock to never have been broken, then another miraculous should have that damage.
because the whole balance thing is just baloney and they didn't want to kill more characters than necessary
They didn't need to kill off Nathalie though, she was recovering so they couldve gone with the excuse that she didn't use it enough to get ill and miraculousy recovered. Or even in this context Ladybug's healing ladybugs should've saved her and that could've been their excuse.
I hope the wish gets explained because how can one dying mans life be equivalent to not only bringing Emily back but also semingly cure Natalie. It doesn’t seem as though enough was sacrificed for what they gained in return.
With this logic he need to say remove broken peacock miraculous effects from them
But that's still technically bringing them back to life, you'd still need someone to take their place.
He also wished Nathalie to get better apparently so IMO Gimmy got scammed.
I think WE have to watch Season 6 the wish May have other balance results that WE don t know yet
r/miraculousladybug • [5]Summarize
Let's have a plot hole showdown! List your plot holes here.
Posted by snafu2922 · in r/miraculousladybug · 3 years agoKwami are exceptional beings. They can't be recorded or heard thru technology. Marinette and Alya proceed to call them on a cellphone in Optigami.
Alya tells marinette she needs proof that lila is lying about her friendship with ladybug. Saying a good journalist always has sources.
This amazing journalist who has had multiple encounters and interviews with said ladybug, has also never asked lila for proof of friendship with ladybug.
All of Lila's lies are ridiculously easy to prove false, and she's supposed to be cunning but she's actually not that smart. Lying when it's not needed makes it much easier to get caught, and most of her lies are not necessary.
And don't forget that Alya also trusts Lila, simply because she says so and "Lila couldn't possibly lie". Lila's plot armor is incredible!
I'm also surprised that no one mentioned that after Alya found out Ladybug's identity. Her best friend is one of the two saviors of Paris, it's logical for Alya to figure out that Lila is lying. Then again, S4 forgot about 90% of the cast, including Lila.
Did Alya know the real identity of LB ? When did she know ? I am still in s3 so this will be awesome
Why Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth never repeats plans that were actually close to working (i.e. Optygami, Miraculer, becoming Scarletmoth) and instead akumatizes Mr.Pigeon, who hasn't once gotten close to succeeding, 72 times.
And why our heroes seem to have made almost no attempts to actually figure out who Hawkmoth is and stop the chaos at its source.
Still Mari/Ladybug Is supposed to be creative one. There are many ways, they could try to get to HM
For example, like „accidently” drop a „Miraculous” (fake one) during a fight with supervillain and let them go to HM to see where they would go. Use Fox Miraculous to create An illusion of themselves and get deafeated by the supervillain. Create fake Miraculous, leave somewhere and „accidently” tell Nadia that They are searching for a new Miraculous that Is probably (name of location).
If you want somebody hidden, make them appear. It’s better to try Then let HM tramautise others
Quantum masks. Felix figured out Shadow Moth's identity for simply wanting one of Alya's video online and seeing a picture of Shadow Moth in that same video. And SUDDENLY, he just knows that Gabriel is Shadow Moth. The Quantum masking was supposed to keep the identity of the holder a secret and to make him unrecognizable for other living beings. Aeon was a robot, so that's why she was unaffected. But Felix? That's what I call: Plot Convenience!
I mean, PERHAPS Amelie does know about it and told Felix.
If Adrien and Felix are Sentimonsters, then Amelie knows that Emilie had the Peacock Miraculous and made Adrien and Felix. She could've told Felix about it (And that's why they were so obsessed to get that ring, because it held Felix's amok and thus his will) and then Felix figured out that Gabriel is Shadow Moth because of the Peacock Miraculous.
Or felix is a sentimonster and thats why he is unaffected by it
Probably that Lila believed Marinette pushed her when she really just fell. An absence of knowledge isn’t a lie
That Marinette being Marinette tripped over air and into Lila, leaving Lila to assume the worst based on Marinette's hostility towards her.
Mime episode - Alya doesn't question how Mari organise interview with Ladybug nor why she can't go with her
Hawkmoth and his plans - He never tries to repeat his more complex plans nor even reflect on them, but he keeps akumasing one guy
Master Fu training Mari - It was basically forgotten by writers
Mari not asking Nino for help...
Duo does nothing to find HM
HM powers - In evil artish (forgot the name), he could inflict pain on the villain
r/miraculousladybug • [6]Summarize
Lila missed her perfect opportunity
Posted by Baval2 · in r/miraculousladybug · 3 months agoShe wants to undermine Ladybug? Don't be Chrysalis. Be Monarch. Ladybug says Monarch is defeated and beloved fashion designer Gabriel Agreste died helping take him down, but oh so sad no body can be recovered and then Monarch shows himself a week later? How would she explain that. Who would believe her (especially since it's one of Lilas lies so everyone loses IQ)?
All she has to do is say "mwahaha I tricked Ladybug into thinking Gabriel Agreste was me and she killed him and tried to hide the evidence! Where is your believed hero now Paris?"
Or if she was a better liar:
"The alliance rings were a thorn in my side for too long, so I akumatized the mainframe to discredit them. Never in my wildest dreams did I realize how effective that would be! Seems I wasn't the only one annoyed by the alliance system and Ladybug, jealous of their effectiveness, took the first opportunity to attack Gabriel Agreste under grounds of being me! Once she realized her mistake she tried to cover up for it. Didn't you wonder why she wasn't able to recover my miraculous? Why the body of Gabriel Agreste couldn't be recovered? Your hero destroyed a helpless man without bothering to make sure she was right, so assured she is in her own righteousness!"
I do agree, although, on the flip side, Lila could easily use ladybug's own actions against her and turn the narrative to make people believe that she's the villain, increasing the support base of Chrysalis herself. Ladybug knowingly handed her a powerful card, and I'm honestly quite surprised that with the amount of overthinking Marinette does she hasn't thought about this possibility.
which powerful card do you means he knowingly handed her? it's probably sth from the london special ig hut it's been a while since I saw it
The fact that she lied about Gabriel Agreste, the person who terrorized Paris and the entire world and turned him into a hero. Lila (or cerise or whatever) has proof from what she extracted from Nathalie as hoaxer. She could quite easily reveal to the world that Ladybug lied to them. Alya's reaction alone can serve testament to the fact that not even her own comrades would completely support her. Lila could easily spin the narrative in front of the rest of the world of Ladybug secretly being a villain or something, and while I doubt the heroes would outright betray her, they would lose their trust in her.
I could see Lila using this as a bargaining chip against Ladybug.
By "knowingly", I mean that in the London Special Ladybug figured out that the person she was dealing with was the new holder of the butterfly, and it's an easy deduction to make that this person probably knew who Monarch was in order to obtain the butterfly.
Excellent! I agree with you that’s smart of you to share with us. I understand now that you expressed your opinions on it.
Whoaaa! Such harsh and creepy dialogue from Lila even tho you theoretically created a whole intensive scene. lol. It’s supposed to be kid friendly though. But that’s exactly what went down and the truth and Ladybug and Lila/ Chrysalis remarks mimicking Old Monarch/Gabriel Agreste, diabolically speaking. Oh to be frank; Lila will quote something like that because she never brags about what she does and knows until the very end and last second of her master plan. But I do wish Lila/Cerise/Chrysalis would make a announcement/ a little grand Appearance like how Hawkmoth first appeared in S1, so we can The beauty of how the Butterfly Miraculous has evolved over time and How a new holder uses it briefly to terrorize her next opponent/victims/target.
What if she pretends to be Monarch's ghost? The London special was gonna be called "the ghosts of the past" so...maybe by using different voices she'll pretend she's every single deceased villainous miraculous holder of the past
Maybe she'll still come out as Monarch?
That's true she could do that. Hawk Moth changed his identity twice, there's not much stopping her from saying she's the next evolution and not a different person.
Not the direction ⬇️ thought this was going. 😲
Would be a good way to have a fugitive arc
r/miraculousladybug • [7]Summarize
The show itself criticizes Marinette far more than the fans do
Posted by Elemeandor · in r/miraculousladybug · 26 days ago
It's no secret that Marinette gets hated on a lot for the stuff she does at times. She's a flawed protagonist and this is a good thing, because it allows her to grow and learn from her mistakes. But the show has a really bad habit of putting her in a situation that isn't her fault and then making the narrative go "This is Marinette's fault and she needs to take responsibility for this". Even when it really isn't.
Pic related, because Syren is a good example of this. Marinette was doing the right thing by doing as Fu said. He was the guardian at the time, and she had no reason to go against his decisions. But the narrative still makes it her responsibility to make Chat Noir feel included and she's the one who has to suggest to Master Fu that he should talk to Adrien. Adrien makes the totally unreasonable decision to quit being Chat Noir over this (in the middle of an akuma attack too). And instead of the show making it seem like Adrien is being irresponsible, Plagg has to make him feel better about himself instead.
One of the narratives in Season 4 is that Ladybug is neglecting Chat Noir, and in the Season finale, she even apologizes to him for not including him more often. The thing is...there's nuance here, and she has a good reason to keep her distance from the guy. She's seen him get akumatized before, and the further away she is from him, the lower the odds of Hawk Moth having his wish granted should anything happen to her. Sure, there were times when she could have definitely told him what was going on (like with Scarabella), but the show only makes Marinette apologize, not acknowledging that she wasn't completely in the wrong here.
And I don't even have to mention episodes like Quilin, where she says this the whole ordeal was all her fault at the end. Or Gamer where she was in the wrong for beating Max at a competition. Or Zombizou. Or Volpina. The list goes on.
Point is, I think Marinette would get bashed a lot less if the show didn't try to make her in the wrong in so many episodes, even when she really wasn't. Especially because this quality doesn't extend to any of the other characters in show. For example, if the show treated Adrien this way, then he'd have to take responsibility for telling Marinette "Sublime and I don't talk (while running)" and doing absolutely nothing to soothe Marinette's anxiety over Sublime. Instead, that episode is entirely about what Marinette did wrong, even though it could have been avoided if her boyfriend just told the full story.
The show is bad in this regard, yes. It blames Mari for a lot of stuff that isn't her fault in an attempt to give her "flaws". But good lord, do not underestimate the simultaneous glazing it performs. Fu calls her the best miraculous holder in history, which while having precedent is a bit Mary Sue, the show has her escape scot free when she really shouldn't, and worst of all, glosses over her actual flaws(until recently, imo).
I agree. Master Fu was the Guardian at that time and watching over Marinette and training her, and supervising her. He should have discipline her more often he was too gentle with her whoever she makes a mistake or misused her powers of the Ladybug Miraculous and whoever she gets her mischief disorganized. Master Fu wanted to lighten up, let go of the old traditional ways of guarding, protecting the Miraculous and start a new way of protecting and navigating abd keeping the secrets abd peace of the Miraculous. Marinete never gets punished by Fu, And if she was more often punished for her actions she would know better and learn more from her Master Of the Guardian of the miraculous. Instead of her flying free, and never being punished or accountable for her mistakes, crimes, and flawed little teenage girl. Sure, she gets the job done and she is the Best Ladybug he has ever met. That’s cool and all but they gloss over her flaws until recently. But wayyy back when Master Fu was the Guardian he should have warned Marinete to stop using her miraculous powers for certain purposes abd reasons. He sugar coated her duties and gave her the space and freedom to make her own choices because she is the holder of the Ladybug and she has to learn to manage the Ladybug miraculous and her own teenage daily life routine so the villain doesn’t suspect she is the Only one who can stop him from granting his Wish.
And although Marinete is not that smart, and she is clumsy and creates the problems for the Akumas sometimes, she manages to correct it a little bit and Master Fu likes it. The show is bad blaming Marinete and it’s not really all her fault she’s the star of the show so we as an audience are looking at her. Not much scenes of Master Fu training her, as Ladybug and not much interacting with Chat Noir either after all Master Fu did choose Adrian to his Cat Noir but took a long time to make his appearance to educate and inform Adrian/Cat Noir about how to handle his Black Cat miraculous.
Up until recent events, Ladybug is trying to avoid and include Cat Noir/Adrian on her know-how and all things magical about the miraculous and her current Character Suspensions of who has the Butterfly Miraculous? because she witnessed a lot of tragic events including losing Cat Noir to Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth/ Monarch. She is also trying hard to please and make both boys Adrian and cat noir happy in her life but she is wacked out going back and forth telling half truths and half lies. It’s unfair. If a boy did this on the Tv show he would have been punished and tamed. After all this is a protagonist who is a magical girl, a teen superhero who thinks she knows what’s best but doesn’t.
This post feels tone deaf like you are purposefully forgetting or omitting information like the lots of wrongs she actually does and how she'd rather victimize herself than take responsibility and how the show bends over backwards to glaze her to the ends of the earth. The entire hero class group should've lost their miraculous and regulated to side characters for civilian Marinette to connect with and have new capable heroes to take their place and have Fu be the new guardian.
What you call criticizes Marinette is just Adrien being edgy for a few scenes with nothing coming to it, the only episode that I think of that has the show actually call her actions a problem, give her a flow and address the problem was when all of her girl friends were accumatized and even that is lacking and made her flow not really her flow.
Some of it isn’t how there are no long-term consequences? Things just work themselves out whether she does good or bad. Yes I know female lead in a kid show. Thus after a simple moral of the day things are always going to work. However, there is a limit and she’s definitely been pushing it.
Combine that with how much the world bends over backwards to tell her she is the best and most creative ladybug it gets old
I mean, it depends on your definition of punishment and crime.
Being careless with Alix's watch? She does get to reflect, yeah. Being careless while babysitting? Yeah, that too. Appointing Alya to a position that'll consume her entire life and eventually wipe her memories away from her without any prior confirmation and consent, like what had basically happened to her, no.
A lot of what fans criticise Marinette for are usually mistakes that aren't ordinary everyday mistakes everyone makes which are usually what gets called out in tv shows, and a lot more of stuff like the Monarch thing, the Sublime thing, etc.
Its also worth noting that the show isn't hitting you with a stick and trying to yell at you that Marinette is a horrible person who deserves to have every single terrible thing in the universe happen to her (she really isn't, basically no ones that bad, not even Gabriel). Its to garner sympathy, which is basically the most used literary tool of all time to make you bond with the protagonist.
Wanting to punish Adrien for taking Marinette's question way too seriously and/or having friends is crazy though. I wouldn't punish anyone for that. Marinette, Felix, Alya, Nino, Kagami.
Well for Alix's watch, Marinette was already busy holding the banner when the former gave it to her. She cannot be the one to blame for this honestly. Adrien helped her with holding the watch and Chloe snatched it from him and accidentally dropped the watch when she opened it.
I mean, true. A lot of the stuff Marinette gets punished for turns out to be really arbitrary and honestly unfair on her as its not like Alix had told her she needed to guard the watch with her life or something. However, since the show technically does punish her for it, I added it there.
I agree.
I agree! Well said.
Where does the show criticize Marinette for her stalking?
That's the problem. It doesn't. In fact, it encourages it.
r/miraculousladybug • [8]Summarize
My issue with forgivness in miraculous (The Ruler Spoilers, El Toro De Piedra Spoilers)
Posted by EmberEmi · in r/miraculousladybug · 4 months agoThere's something icky I kinda find with the writing when it comes to forgivness.
It basically feels like the characters (Marinette) are expected to forgive characters. Like the episode has to end whith whatever character being forgiven for whatever hanious crim they commited eg. Derision, Quilin, Ruler, El Toro De Piedra, Daddy Cop etc.
And yet when Lila (the one character who doesn't forgive Marinette, which is fair in Volpina) is villified and made the villain. I feel like it would be great to show kids that you're allowed to be upset when people hurt you and you're allowed to not forgive them (AND YOU'RE NOT A BAD PERSON FOR DOING SO)
An example I'd give is in Steven Universe, in Season 2 episode "Cry for Help" Pearl breaks Garnet's trust by rebuilding the comuunication hub after they destroyed it so that she and Garnet can keep fusing into Sardonyx. By the end of the episode when the truth is revealed, Garnet is furious and doesn't forgive Pearl by the end, and she isn't villified because she doesn't forgive Pearl. It actually takes 5 episodes before Pearl and Garnet actually talk to each other aout what happened and Pearl is finnaly able to explain and articulate why she did what she did. They're able to make out of it stronger because of it.
I would actually welcome this in Miraculous, like with Sabrina, it shouldn't take 1 episode for her to be best friends with everyone, it should take time, it should take more than one episode.
It would be very complex to have a show like Miraculous, which is fairly episodic, to have long arcs dedicated to forgiving a character who is comparatively minor in the grand scheme of things. Pearl is a protagonist character, Sabrina isn't, let alone Ivan and Nathaniel's parents.
And if you don't particularly care for said characters, it becomes even worse.
I mean they did it in season 5. That entire season felt like the plot and characters were actually moving along. And then they just completely dropped it in season 6
ML is very much a kid's show when it comes to forgiveness, even to the detriment of the writing.
Good= Marinette's team
Bad= Someone who doesn't like Marinette. - Which would be fine but if they don't like Marinette then they have to be the most extreme about it.
I will say that I liked the hesitation the Akuma class had with Sabrina because it acknowledged her dealings with Chloe. Wish they had called about Adrien as well. It should have taken longer but again it's a kid's show so "moral lesson of the day" writing.
They were concerned in Origins about Adrien being friends with Chloe, but only Origins. The gum incident is why Marinette hated Adrien at first. But then the umbrella scene happened, now she’s suddenly completely flustered by him. But no one really questions it, the class just encourages Marinette to pursue him... nevermind the plot of Derision and Adrien’s direct connection to Chloe, which should have been a huge trigger for Marinette! She even swore she wouldn’t pursue anyone friends with Chloe, and yet there she was for 5 seasons. 🤔
Adrien is a secondary main character and the main love interest, so it’d send a mixed message if he were associating with a bully, even if said bully is supposed to be his childhood friend. I think that’s why the writers had him distance himself from her after season 2. But even by your own definition of bad, Adrien doesn’t fit, because he does like Marinette.
Imagine if Adrien had the OG concept Felix’s personality and didn’t like Marinette. I wonder if he’d be put in the “good” or “bad” category, even as the main love interest 🤔
Felix is funny because Thomas replaced Felix with Adrien because he thought "Felix was too mean to be a love interest" and "a bad idea to have the MC in love with someone so mean." Only to make Felix a more interesting character and Adrien- a spinless character who only seems to get motivated when it affects him personally . I.E: Chat Blanc and Derision.
IMO, he should have just kept Felix
Yeah, it's almost always had a Protagonist Centered Morality
TIL there’s a term for it! I’ve been calling it moral exceptionalism, but this applies more specifically to stories.
PCM is not my favorite writing but it's the easiest for kids to understand
In all fairness, Sabrina was not quite as bad as Chloe could get, was actually quite amicable on her own time, and hadn't done much against anyone for a good while, to the point that she ultimately turned when she was finally ordered to do so. I definitely agree that she deserved more of an focused arc or two, though.
And yeah, I also feel like the handling of the former antagonists is a bit of a recurring problem with this show at this point and it's telling that Sabrina is arguably the best out of the fulfilled ones besides Kagami despite how wasted she is.
See... The thing with Lila is that she was probably a bad person long before she shows up in Season 1. At least from the story's standpoint.
I mean maybe, but literally in Volpina she isn't even that bad. And I highly doubt when they were writing her at the time she had the whole "multiple different lifes, different mothers" thing going on.
To be honest, it seems that Ivan's father was already in a criminal rehabilitation program. He will still lose his freedom again. We simply saw Ivan. At least he wants to form bonds, even though that's normal, believe me, I have a friend with a similar situation. It seems that Lila has a lot of shit even before season 1, and she didn't get better, she got worse.
r/miraculousladybug • [9]Summarize
Is there a huge plot hole in s5 ep1 or was I too stupid to get it
Posted by Snow_bby2 · in r/miraculousladybug · 2 years agoSo, massive sorry if this has been asked several times before because tbh it wouldn't surprise me. After watching the first episode of s5 I just got so frustrated cause it was confusing af and completely illogical. (Quick context Ladybug just lost all the miraculous to Monarch and gets the Bunny miraculous back)
First things first, why didn't Bunnix go back in time to the exact moment Ladybug looses the miraculous just like she did in Chat Blanc?? Was there any special reason she couldn't?? Cause it makes absolutely no sense for her, an experienced superhero to go helping an already defeated Ladybug instead of just simply preventing it.
If it somehow wasn't possible and I'm the one who missed something, why didn't Sass use his powers to go back? Like he practically glitched the universe for Adrien and Marinette to forget each others identities. Again, I just can't understand. He couldn't have been stopped by anyone, plus he would have known Hawk Moth's identity.
Even Adrien could've traveled with Bunnix's miraculous to the moment Felix stole them from Mari, just like Gabriel did to his day with Emily. They even saw young Fu, it wasn't really that hard omfg It's so frustrating, please tell me if I have to catch up with something I didn't lol.
You can't simply travel in time and change present. There are consequences. For example, if Marinette traveled in time to prevent Fu from losing the butterfly and peacock miraculouses will also result in erasing Ladybug and Cat Noir, probably erasing Adrien as a whole if sentitheory is true, and anything related with them. Some things simply have to happen.
True, but haven't they done it several times before?
Not really if you think about it.
Timetagger- a version of bunnix from future was sent to figh a villain that can time travel. Also Bunnix referred to herself as last resort of Ladybug's team.
Cat Blanc- same future Bunnix used her powers to erase the apocalypse from the timeline.
Strike Back- firt time when present rabbit miraculous is used. Only to help activate Fetch, withouth being noticed. Worth to mention that Marinette couldn't think straight because of Risk.
Evolution- Got back from Monarch, later present bunnix used the powers to hide from Monarch in a different time. A future version of the watch used by Adrien to chase Monarch. Monarch already messed with the timeline anyway in that episode.
Reunion- Literally used as a forecast.
So is used only in 3 scenarios: counter time traveller villains, erase the apocalypse, or VERY SMALL tasks to not disturb the timeline. In my opinion, the rabbit is overrated, is so strong that you can't really do much without changing the timeline, and is so hard to predict what happens then, so is not really worth it to consider it as a 1st option.
This is why I hate the use of time travel as a plot device, especially given how it's used in Miraculous. I don't get why they can't just use the Burrow to find Hawkmoth's identity and defeat him. No time travel or tinkering with the past would even be necessary, they can literally see everything from in there.
I guess it's because Alix remembers that this happened in the past, so if she prevented it it would have erased her current self from existance. Also, this is basically the reason she got the miraculous in the first place basically, only taking care of her own survival
Tbh I was confused too. Alix got her miraculous from her dad back in S1E5 on her birthday! Why she needs to be given it now confused me too.
Remember in timetagger she gave her watch to her older self
Anytime there's time travel involved, there are plot holes. It's pretty much unavoidable.
However, in defense of Bunnix and Sass in the situations you mention above, in both cases they acted as they did to prevent the literal end of the Universe. There was absolutely no way they could mess things up worse than that, so it made sense to go for it despite the potential consequences.
It's a very bad thing that Gabriel Agreste got his hands on all but two of the Miraculous jewels, to be sure. But, as bad as that is, it actually COULD be worse, and I can even draw a line of reasoning to that "even worse" conclusion.
Let's say Felix failed to get his hands on the yo-yo, and that therefore Gabriel doesn't get the Miraculous jewels. That's a positive thing right up front - but, it also means that Marinette is not compelled to give the Miraculous of Evolution to Alix at that time. Instead, she delays this action, perhaps indefinitely. This means that there is no Bunnix to eventually go back in time and play her part in the Cat Blanc incident. Thus, the Universe is destroyed, all because Gabriel Agreste was prevented from capturing the Miraculous Jewels when he did. As another superhero once said: Mess with Time, and it tends to mess back. Sometimes, a bad thing has to happen so that an even worse thing does not.
I'm going to point to another analogy here which is admittedly controversial, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hold water. Consider the nuclear bomb; at first glance, it would seem that nuclear weapons are a bad thing, no argument needed. However, there is a historical truth to consider: in all of human history up to World War II, each subsequent conflict became more and more deadly and destructive. Then, after 1948, the trend suddenly reversed. War became LESS deadly overall. Humans are still fighting each other and dying over it, but WWII was the last time that people threw all they had into it. For the last 70 years, we have been pulling our punches, and I submit that it's the threat of nuclear Armageddon which makes us do that. Both sides in any given conflict know that if we let things go too far, everyone loses.
Now, imagine a well-meaning time traveler goes back and somehow ends World War II without the need for nuclear bombs. But, without that terrible example to show humanity what happens when one or two nuclear bombs are dropped on a city, we don't see them as an unthinkable option; instead, we view them as a viable means to quickly gain the upper hand in a conflict. The problem is that when the bombs eventually get used, it's not just two of them with a yield measured in kilotons; instead, both sides launch dozens or hundreds of nuclear bombs at each other, and multi-megaton blasts blow dozens of cities off the face of the Earth.
Whatever one might think of my argument, it is indisputable that our history with nuclear weapons could have been much worse than it was, and any change in the timeline may well have ended up causing a far more terrible result than what we got. No matter how good one's intentions, there is no way to predict the long-term consequences of messing with Time. The only way one can change the past with zero possibility of making things worse is when one is facing complete universal annihilation, because there's just no way to mess it up more than that.
r/miraculousladybug • [10]Summarize
I found a plot hole from the season 5 Finale (SPOILERS OFC ⚠️⚠️)
Posted by somebod_w · in r/miraculousladybug · 2 years agoHow did Marinette remember that Monarch was Gabriel and knew abt his wish AFTER he has rewritten the universe? Shouldn't marinette not remember anything that happened?
Hmmm maybe because Gabriel said to "read his heart" and that included having Marinette remembering everything? And presumably she would then tell Su-Han and Alya about it afterwards.
As for Lila, I have a theory for that as well. Maybe there was some device in the briefcase she stole from Tomoe that prevented the magic from affecting her. A little bit far-fetched, perhaps, but that's the only thing I can think of for now.
That is a very cool theory that would make soo much sense!!
Update: I think from what Thomas said their memories weren’t wiped after all! And I rewatched the scene another time and Marinette never mentioned Gabriel when talking to Alya and Su-Han. There’s still a chance they don’t know. Let’s hope so.
He only wanted to change “one thing” in his words. I don’t remember being informed what it was but I imagine a condition he would’ve requested is that everything would stay the same except for that one thing.
exactly! not only that but also looked like there were others who remembered the past as well
Ye like lila and alya
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Miraculous Ladybug plot holes
Key Considerations on "Miraculous Ladybug" Plot Holes:
Character Knowledge: There are instances where characters seem unaware of key information that they should logically know, such as the true identities of Ladybug and Cat Noir, despite being close to them.
Miraculous Powers: The rules governing the Miraculous powers can sometimes appear inconsistent. For example, certain abilities are used in one episode but not referenced in others, leading to confusion about their limitations.
Akuma Victims: Some episodes show akumatized individuals quickly returning to normal after their defeat, while others linger on the consequences of their actions, raising questions about the consistency of the akuma's effects.
Time Travel and Memory: The use of time travel in certain episodes introduces complications regarding character memories and the timeline, which can create contradictions in the story.
Character Development: Some characters experience rapid changes in personality or motivations that may not be adequately explained, leading to confusion about their arcs.
Takeaways:
Enjoyment vs. Logic: While plot holes can be distracting, many fans enjoy the series for its themes of friendship, heroism, and romance, which can sometimes overshadow logical inconsistencies.
Community Discussions: Engaging with fan communities can provide insights and theories that help explain or explore these plot holes, enhancing your viewing experience.
Creative License: Remember that animated series often prioritize storytelling and character development over strict adherence to logic, which can lead to these inconsistencies.
If you're a fan, consider discussing these points with others to see different perspectives on the series!
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