Training Components
K-pop idol training is a comprehensive and rigorous process that encompasses various components. Trainees receive multiple weekly lessons in dance, vocals, and rap, along with language classes to prepare them for international markets [2:1]. They also undergo media training, which includes learning how to present themselves on camera and during interviews
[2:4]. Beyond performance skills, trainees are taught modeling techniques to handle brand partnerships effectively
[2:2].
Daily Schedule and Workload
The daily schedule of a K-pop trainee can be incredibly demanding, often involving 8-10 hours of training per day [3:3]. This schedule is akin to that of young athletes who dedicate significant time to their sport alongside school commitments
[3:1]. For those without school obligations, the training can extend to 12-hour days
[3:3]. The workload is designed not only to develop skills but also to prepare trainees for the intense demands of being a professional entertainer
[2:3].
Focus on Performance Over Perfection
The goal of K-pop training is not necessarily to create perfect singers or dancers but rather well-rounded performers who can deliver cohesive group performances [5:1]. Training emphasizes stability in performances, breath control, stamina, and fitness
[1:1]. While some idols may not excel individually in singing or dancing, they are trained to perform as part of a group
[5:1].
Challenges and Criticisms
Despite the extensive training, the system has its criticisms. Some argue that idols are debuted before they are fully ready, leading to uneven skill levels among performers [5:4]. Others point out that the quality of training can vary significantly depending on the resources available to the company
[5:3]. Additionally, the competitive nature of the industry means that not all trainees will debut, adding stress to the already demanding training regimen
[1:6].
Cultural and Social Aspects
The K-pop training system is deeply embedded in South Korean culture, where high-risk, high-reward career paths are common [4:1]. The intense training is comparable to other prestigious fields, such as ballet or gymnastics, where early specialization and rigorous practice are necessary for success
[4:3]. However, this intensity and the industry's pressures have raised concerns about the long-term well-being of idols
[4:6].
Overall, the K-pop training process is a multifaceted program designed to produce versatile performers capable of thriving in the highly competitive entertainment industry.
I’ve heard that being a trainee in a k-pop company is really tough. But the skillsets of some idols makes me question how it works. No disrespect to anyone of course. But there are a few idols that I can think of that have trained for 4+ years but still lack in one or a few areas. Obviously not everyone would turn out perfectly, but surely 4+ years of singing and dancing classes would do something?
I'd wager a ton of idols don't actually get proper vocal training or lessons, especially under smaller companies with less resources. Sure, they may practise a lot over the years but the actual skills may remain stagnant. Also if the company has them train as a 'rapper' instead of a vocalist but their rapping is not good, they end up with little experience in the vocal aspect. Finally there's the category that sneaks by for being a good visual.
As for the actual training, at least in accounts of 3rd gen idols (which I primarily followed), it is very strenuous and strict with idols practising until late night and only getting a handful of hours to sleep.
I think a lot of the time when you hear "training" the word "practice" is more likely accurate; whenever I hear idols talk about their training they aren't talking about being taught by a teacher all day every day, they just say they practice for hours and hours on end. Maybe I just have a poor sample size but it feels like a lot of the active physical stress (i.e. physical activity) comes from drilling choreography or doing exercise, made harder by the passive physical stress of things like dieting or poor nutrition and lacking or poor sleep.
I can't speak to vocals, I'm not sure how that works in practice and the only group I can remember hearing mention it is Loona (granted this was ages ago), but it certainly seems like this is the case for dance. One thing that makes me think so past idols' comments is that many people will have the same issues or bad habits persist for years, which in my experience tend to come from a lack of proper teaching and/or a lack of correction as a result of said lack or teaching.
That isn't to say X idol is bad because they have X bad habit, but for a plethora of technical reasons many things which start as bad habits inhibit your ability to properly use certain techniques later on; this is additionally true if you go from one dance background to another after a long period of time like Le Sserafim's Kazuha, because if you've spent years drilling technique in one style your body will try to make the new technique out of the old instead of starting with a blank canvas.
For example, though note this isn't about Kazuha specifically, in ballet to my understanding you want to keep your body fairly rigid and tuck your shoulder blades back; you don't want to use your shoulders to extend your arm movements or lines, you want them to sit in a pulled back position. When going into say hiphop or popping then, where the basis of the style is in grooving with the music and you want big energetic extensions, you can face some real difficulty doing movements properly or getting your lines to look right because you spent a decade actively stopping your shoulders from moving and it's almost become the natural sitting posture of them.
I’ve also heard some trainees/Kpop idols say they train their vocals by going on running machines
Yes! This actually originated from BoA — she held her first Japanese showcase where it was 100% live (full band, no backtrack) and she didn’t have the stamina to hold notes. She also mentioned she couldn’t keep her vocals stable. So she went to NYC and was trained to run and sing; she brought the practice back to K-pop. If you ever watch her lives, she is on another level.
Idol training is strenuous because along with the typical vocal + dance training lessons, idols are also on diets, still in school, getting little sleep, and living in a dorm rather than home which all compound the difficulty of being a trainee.
Moreover, the "aren't good despite years of practice" part is like . . . a lie because it's all relative. For example, people think Lia from Itzy is a bad dancer because they constantly compare her to Ryujin/Yeji/Chaeryeong/Yuna, but compared to the average idol Lia's dancing actually is actually not bad.
What people don't realize is that the idols you see at the top of the industry represent the 1% of trainees who debuted in a medium to large sized company. People need to realize that almost every single idol you see is cream of the crop.
I’m talking about idols who are below average singers and dancers in general, not relative to their groups. There are idols who are considered to be objectively weak singers regardless of who they’re being compared to
as far as the development of dance skills, i get a feeling that a lot of dance training focuses on memorizing and drilling choreographies for evaluations, instead of teaching actual dance fundamentals. if someone with no dance experience is trained like that, chances are they will only learn to copy what they see in order to keep up, without actually understanding how it works. so you can spend 100s of hours like that and never pick up actual dance technique, but pass enough evaluations to debut as a weak dancer.
from what i've seen, JYP as a company places a lot of emphasis on dance fundamentals, which may be why they produce a lot of fairly good dancers.
It seems like the most important thing is learning the choreo of every major song that has gone before them, since they all seem to know them, instead of dance fundamentals. Some groups who are fantastic dancers now, like Ateez and SKZ, were not great when they started, but they probably knew basic choreo to every song that had charted in the past 10 years.
I think it was JYP, some idol said they had to master like 40? core moves.
Idol dancing is its own thing. People who debut have to be a good idol dancer, not somebody who can destroy on Street Fighter Woman or So You Think You Can Dance.
Like Jpop group Perfume or a lot of Twice's choreos, especially from first 2 or 3 years, almost anybody can learn them if they take the time to memorize. In acting, it would be like learning a long monologue, it's mostly about recollection. Like say a speech in a Shakespeare play. Whereas some acting is not just about pure recollection, it requires being able to physically express things. Like that scene in Wolf of Wall Street where Leo has taken drugs.
So I would say a lot of Idol dancing is like shakespeare. You can learn to do it if you spend hours memorizing. But some of Loona or Dreamcatcher (or Alvin Ailey for that matter) might be more like Wolf of Wall Street, requires a level of athleticism, flexibility, and fluidity that a lot of people simply don't possess.
Also, wanna add 2 more thing: Idol dance is often kept kind of simple on purpose, so fans will wanna do them. Simple and catchy. And, lastly, if you watch fan cams, even relatively simple choreos, you see the main dancers still do them way better than the average dancers of a group. The main dancers add musicality, textures, and details that the lesser dancers, who might be stronger singers, don't add. In a move, you might notice 12 things going on with the main dancer, all incredibly precise, whereas the weaker dancer, it's like 4 or 5 things going on and less precise, too.
Just ranting at this point. Not contesting or building upon anything that was said really.
A lot of idol training is actually behavioral — proper posture, public speaking, facial expression, networking, and modeling. The micro actions are what makes or breaks an idol. Also, the vocal and dancing training is focus on the total package, not the skills individually. So training on delivering the most stable performance possible, rather than becoming the best singer or dancer. Things like breath control, stamina, and fitness for example.
So yes, training does something. It creates the best performer it can in the timespan the idol is a trainee. I think people underestimate just how difficult all of these micro things are to pull together and be a jack of all trades in. I would argue that it is difficult to be a better overall performer than just a great vocalist or dancer.
I think a lot of stress probably also comes from the fact that they are all competing to be chosen to debut, it's not like it is a guaranteed outcome. So it's not about being the best they can be at a particular skill but being better than others in their cohort. And "fitting" whatever the concept the company wants to try is.
Like what do they do. Its common to be a trainee for 4-5 years and do they do like a full day schedule everyday for 4 years. And what do they even do in training like is it just a monthly vocal lesson and dance lessons
Most of these comments answered your question, but two things I don't see people mention a lot are:
- Model training. Idols also do tons of brand partnerships and need to learn to pose, train facial expressions, learn how to do things in a "pretty/handsome" way for photoshoots, etc. These skills can take years to develop and look natural.
- Plastic surgery, diets, and body modification. Depending on how much a trainee does, this can take a lot of time due to healing. Nose jobs, chin/jaw reductions, botox, fillers, and other cosmetic procedures take time (consult, pre-op, recovery, upkeep, etc.). Most trainees don't come in with the standard "idol body," so they lose weight or tone up depending on the company's rules/image for the trainee. Weight loss, muscle gain, and toning don't happen overnight. Most already have good features that the company clearly thinks they can "work with", but it can still take months to a year for someone to reach a "debut-ready" standard. (All of this is fucked up but it's true).
I used to do photoshoots with kpop idols briefly, can confirm.
I used to do modeling for (commercial, not runway lol). Model training is so odd because you'd simply never hold something like that / sit or stand like that in any normal situation, so you start off very stiff and awkward, even if you're not camera shy. The fact that so many idols are also great models (Jungkook consumed that CK campaign) speaks to the intensity of whatever training they do!
Some people seriously underestimate how skilled these idols are. To get to the level they need to be at, yeah, it takes a long time. Same for a pro soccer or tennis player, or a ballet dancer to be a principle dancer.
On top of the skill acquisition, which other people have detailed, I think it's almost like the military, where the workload and sheer pace and intensity, is getting idols ready for the rigors of being a professional entertainer in Kpop.
Watching some variety shows will give you a better sense of what they go through. Like watch Produce 101 or something like that, they are not trained to be mindless robots. These idols have a lot of skill, they can create vocal arrangements, assign parts, and do choreo. As well as create a concept, choose hair and clothing to match those concepts, etc.
Another great show was the one with "sisters" in the title? A bunch of non idols were going to make an idol group, and you can see how long it took reasonably coordinated people to learn a VERY simple routine. Meanwhile, Somi comes in, watches the choreo twice, and learns it in like 10 minutes.
other comments already explained everything and i just want to add
i just watched SMTR25 videos (SM ent trainees) and beside the usual training they also trained in something they're good/interested at, like example trainee Haruta is good at tennis so the training staff took him there sometimes to practice his physical ability too, then Hamin is good at traditional dancing so they brought in a special trainer.
Another one i heard is producing and writing lyrics class, instrument class, i think SM also has a music theory class. beside weekly and monthly evaluation they also have trainee showcase, it's usually private just like evaluation but they're on stage, wearing stage outfit and probably makeup too. the one watching are higher up agency official and some people from media. it was how the current Hearts2Hearts member being 'chosen'.
Most trainees tend to have multiple dance/rap/vocal lessons weekly. Then there’s also language classes. Then just loads of time for them to practice all those skills, time to work out. Some companies will also do media training, knowing when to look at cameras etc a lot of behind the stage scene stuff. Acting classes possibly for emotions and facial expressions.
Generally what a lot of companies do are monthly(ish) evaluations. Every month they have a vocal/rap routine they practice with their vocal teachers and on their own to perform in front of a mix of company staff who evaluate them. These could be solo and mixed group performances, along with dance performances as well.
Those evaluations generally are how companies choose when to cut trainees if they’re not improving fast enough or the trainee isn’t what the company was going for.
Sometimes all these things can be a mix of solo performances, group performances they need to prepare for and learn. Routines they need to learn quickly and perfect.
CLC’s Sorn practiced from 3-10pm since she went to school. Those that didn’t have school did 1-10pm.
They had about 4 hours of lessons per day with about 5 to practice.
The lessons they took were fitness/health, vocal/rap, dance, musical instrument, languages, acting, speech/etiquette.
Sorn said there were both monthly and weekly evaluations.
The schedule ends usually around 9?10pm for most trainees but most of them tend to stay until around 12- 1am to continue practicing.
I just want to add that for boy group, some of them even started learning how to write and produce music.
I doubt this is entirely a boy group exclusive thing (especially since a lot of these companies literally work with female producers and writers lmao). It was more of a rapper only thing until recently. And It's also very dependent on the company. Some companies want to train their idols into future producers while others don't really care for that at all.
A lot of idols/trainees also write and compose songs under pseudonyms so nobody really knows they ever learned to produce music until they publicly announce it, if they ever do.
Since the success of I-DLE female trainees are also getting midi lessons.
TWICE also mentioned JYP provided sex ed classes from a renowned professional as well as cyber security lessons (in regards to phone security and social media).
That's one of my favorites. Also, I highly recommend watching Sixteen, Nizi Project, A2K, and Popstar Academy.
I heard almost every trainee trains at least 8-10 hours a day even if they are students. I see that the trainees who have chosen for the debut work that hard for their upcoming debut or the new trainees should work that hard so they can show their improvements but do long-term trainees work at least 10 hours a day too or after they prove themselves they have more relaxed training schedule till the debut team chosen? I mean all Blackpink members trained longer than 4 years, Everglow Aisha trained 11 years, Jihyo trained for 10 years, Yeonjun and Chaeryeong trained for 5 years, Seulgi and BangChan trained for 7 years, etc. and I can't understand how could they work so hard at their early teen years and continue this till their debut.
I spent my middle school and high school years in a highly competitive marching band. Practice would go from official full band practice to sectional practice. To sometimes just some of us practicing more. During on season I had maybe one day to myself. I was either in school or at practice pretty much. And to be honest, that was my favorite time. Days off not practicing or competing felt weird.
Some people like to work if they enjoy what they are doing enough. I worked 60 hour work weeks at an amusement park and still spent half my non sleeping free time there. But I work 35 hours a week now at a job I tolerate and wish I could quit everything.
I completely get what you mean.
I worked 70+ hours a week at a place I loved. The people, my coworkers, the environment, the city and guess what, I still hung out there during my off day lol or basically just lurked nearby. The schedule was 2 weeks straight of work, followed by 1 off day, followed by 2 more weeks.
Then I moved to a different city that I hated, and the people I didn't click, the environment was gloomier, I worked 40 hours give or take with no more night shifts and i really just counted down the days of each week and it felt like such a drag.
I can see if the idols love what they do, are surrounded by good friends they made that they become motivated to train and work hard
I can only answered from what I saw in YG Treasure Box and some comments from members and such.
YG trainees train for 12 hours a day (I think it's 10 - 10) for the ones without schools. So if you have schools you would come in after schools or maybe a bit before depending on the schedule. Like Doyoung's shool mate shared that he didn't have lunch at his middle school much since he had to take off to train often. But you would see Treasure C came in with school uniform at the beginning of YGTB. So, for the young ones, they would have school first and whatever time they have left they finish the day with training. I think you can skip practice if there is something important like exams at school. One time they showed Yedam only got 1 hr of practice with his group before a big performance because he had school exams (he took his school time very seriously and usually did good at school). I think the only problem when you skipped practice is that you may not do well at monthly evaluation and got kick out. It's more discipline than anything else.
Top trainees like Treasure A were practically live and breath at YG. They stay at YG dorms, got free food and just practiced. Most of them either finished high school already or dropped off or just took GED (except for Yedam and Doyoung). For Treasure J, I think they took Shinkansen to Tokyo every weekend until they are done with schooling. Then they moved into YG dorm to train full time. It could be a pretty stressful life though not gonna lie. You put all your dream in this one shot and not everyone can make it.
For the ones that start training really young, it's probably more like those train for competitive sports, every evenings like clock work. One of my old friend used to do like a county level swimming competition and she had to get up every morning to train and same for the evening for like 1-2 years. I guess it's the same kind of deal.
Honestly, it may sound weird, but as someone who had friends/family into sports during school, it never really struck me as much different then that
I know half a dozen people who would go to school and every day after school practice for hours until it was late, do their homework at night and then repeat. With added practice/games on weekends taking up time there.
Kpop feels similar to those really dedicated "career bound" athletes like that tbh. Which would make sense, since they're essentially the same thing
EDIT: So checking my JYP boys timeline out of the trainees whos info we know (not counting boy story), it seems like the spread of ages they joined the company at is as follows
>12: 2 trainees
>
>13: 6 trainees
>
>14: 5 trainees
>
>15: 8 trainees
>
>16: 13 trainees
>
>17: 24 trainees
>
>18: 10 trainees
>
>19: 3 trainees
>
>20: 3 trainees
>
>21: 2 trainees
>
>22: 1 trainees
So, at least wit the case study of JYP boys, its really rare for trainees to not be high school aged, which is a generally really normal age for kids to get hardcore into a physical career path and devote a lot of time training to!
Wait that carrd was so interesting to read- do you know if there’s anything similar for other companies?
I don’t think so, since I made this one myself!
From 7th grade to 11th grade (age 12 to 17) I had either Soccer practice, basketball practice, game, tournament, etc every single day. I played AAU basketball, rec basketball, travel soccer, and I was also on the high school equestrian team. All of this while I was taking AP/GT classes.
Professional athletes had hours and hours of practice each day for most of their childhoods as well.
If it's something you enjoy it's not unrealistic. It's not exactly easy, but it's also not for everyone.
>Professional athletes had hours and hours of practice each day for most of their childhoods as well.
>
>If it's something you enjoy it's not unrealistic. It's not exactly easy, but it's also not for everyone.
I'm not an athlete or a performer myself, but this is exactly how I imagine what it's like. :)
It's a very similar schedule to a kid athlete tbh.
I was a competitive swimmer from age 10 to 17 when I graduated high school. We were on a special program and there are a lot of similarities. I had 0 chance of ever making it professional after getting very badly injured when I was 13 and I still kept up with the training anyway because I loved it.
Our daily routine was something like:
No holiday break, we had swim camp which was basically our everyday routine on steroids. A controlled diet and frequent weigh-in.
Of course, there are times where you're like "why am I doing this?" but if you still find a reason you keep going, because at the end of the day it's your passion. So it's very easy to make a parallel with kpop trainees and view the whole training process the same way people train to become professional athletes.
I know that being a K-pop idol is a lot of people’s dream and I don’t blame anyone for going after their dream. But at the same time, the K-Pop industry is so notoriously terrible for the trainees and idols, the chances of making it big unless you’re in a big agency in the current landscape of K-Pop is basically little to none.
And you’re forced to train and be treated in a borderline inhumane way by the company for the slim chance of success. I know that people will do anything for their dream.
But the fact that this industry is so bad is public knowledge and if just makes me wonder what in their mind makes them so eager to become a K-Pop idol that they’re willing to put up with such awful treatment at such a slim chance of success, and if failed they could waste so much of their life.
Especially if they start out young, could have sacrificed their entire childhood for basically nothing? I know that sometimes it’s their parents that force them to participate and get signed off to a company at like really really young ages so they’re especially trapped in the trainee life.
But in my own perspective as an outsider, the industry is so glaringly terrible at such a slim chance at success, and even if you do get successful, you still have to deal with saesangs, hate, shitty treatment from the company, and trainee debt that essentially locks you into their hold until you pay it off.
And it’s not like if you fail at being a K-Pop idol you can just walk away, you have years of issues and probably some type of physiological damage, probably some type of ED from the strict diets, the harsh treatment, years of effort wasted, and thousands of dollars of trainee debt. I’m not trying to blame people who get trapped into such a system, because of how exploitative it is and how some people can be manipulated into the trainee life by their parents.
But when that’s not the case, I just do not understand what kind of headspace you have to be in to want to become a K-Pop idol despite already knowing all the risks and just how bad it is for them. I’m not really trying to blame anyone for how bad the industry is, and I’m not trying to justify companies treating their idols and trainees poorly but people often say ‘but they choose to be an idol so now they have to deal with x thing’ but I do see some point in it even if I don’t completely agree.
Like wouldn’t it be somewhat on them for getting into an industry like this in the first place, knowing how bad it is but doing it anyways? I don’t like it when K-Pop companies treat idols badly, I really don’t, but at the same time, this is the K-Pop industry, wouldn’t they stay 10ft away from the industry if they really didn’t want to go through all that bs?
Sorry if I sound insensitive, but I truly don’t know what would compel someone to go through all that to be a K-Pop idol just to deal with even more bs even if they do somehow debut. I’ve been a K-Pop stan for a good 4 years and I’ve just honestly never really understood the type of mindset it takes to deal with all that.
It's the same as with a lot of activities. I think of figure skating or gymnastics. There are rampant abuse issues. However, there's also a lot of beauty in the sports and athletes enjoy them, just like idols probably enjoy dancing and singing and rapping.
It's also true that children can't fully anticipate what the downsides of the industry (or aesthetic sports) are and what those downsides mean for their longterm psyche and physical health. But it's not as simple as just banning kids though there need to be guidelines and restrictions (like that upcoming show should never happen).
The good news is that we've also seen progress in these sports, but it's something to not let up on. Parents and coaches should all be trained to do better by the idols/athletes. I do think progress can happen and should happen.
There's also a cultural aspect here too, in that kids in Korea are going to be pushed 9 times out of 10 both physically and mentally, if not in the idol industry than in school. At least if they enjoy singing or dancing they get that out of it, while studying not necessarily. And I'm a huge advocate for education, but there are unhealthy extremes that can be pushed on kids that isn't unique to any culture, but is certainly more prevalent in Korea.
Exactly this, the south Korean education system is well known for pushing extremes on the children, so in the eyes of these children, the working conditions that are there in the industry may be the "norm" (though it shouldn't)
It's a high risk, high reward job. Think of doctors. They spend a decade plus studying and don't get rewarded until 10+ years in their career. They also ruin their bodies, lack sleep, stand for 3 days straight, only to do it all over again. It's also an abusive environment with a strict hierarchy and competition. It can be inhumane and not everyone makes it.
But the rewards? Prestige, money, respect. Sometimes that outweighs all the sacrifice they did.
It's the same for idols. If they make it, they change their families' lives for generations. Not to mention, the love and attention you get from all over the world can be addicting. Once you perform on stage and hear the roars, it's hard to let that go.
I do understand, but with idols vs doctors, being a K-pop idol is a job where you could be on top for your 15 minutes of fame then fade into obscurity.
And there is no chance that you’ll succeed no matter how long you work or that you’re in the industry, and on top of that. Once you’re over like let’s say 26 your chances have basically faded way lower.
I’m not trying to discredit doctors or say it’s easy because it’s not. But also at the same time, once you make it, you make it, you don’t just randomly go back to being broke after getting a really good pay day because your comeback flopped once your 15 minutes of fame is up if that ever even happens.
Idol life is very similar to a profession like ballerina.
Some professional just require that grind to achieve.
Seriously, I remember getting hit with a cane at like 8 years on my things and ankles during ballet. If you get a old russian teacher, that's the norm.
It's just the reality that prestige jobs that's have a short peak performance, have hard training.
At this point, yes. These kids' parents have seen the rise of K-pop with the 2nd and 3rd gen idols in the last 20 years, as well as all their very much documented struggles, some with very high-profile legal battles against their companies. These kids themselves, as K-pop fans, would know them very well, too. They have no business going into the industry and claiming to be blindsided by all of this later on when the toxicity is very much out in the open. They need to want it so bad, all the other bullshit that comes with it doesn't matter.
I understand why Koreans do it - it's probably bc making a living any other way other through STEM jobs is hard, so for kids who are not studious and bad at school they see Kpop and acting as a way out/a way to survive. And work industry is so competitive in Korea, as with many East Asian countries. It's the western and international kpop fans who post audition vids, inquire about auditioning, and are proactively pursuing a career in kpop that I'm confused about. Like if you're a kpop fan you should be well aware of how awful work culture is for idols. But some of the kids are either young or ignorant and naive despite being 16-17. They don't do research on the industry and just blindly pursue a career in kpop. Older fans should take action to always discourage western and int young fans from auditioning.
I also don't get why Asian idols coming from English speaking countries like Australia and USA also pursue a job in kpop, considering their parents brought them to a freer more relaxed country only for the child to abandoned that for a highly competitive, vicious, and expensive society like Korea...it makes absolutely no sense. Like if they wanted a career in music they could've pursued it in the west, you know what I mean? Why would they give up a more relaxed job environment for the rigorous lifestyle of a kpop idol?
I know we are far from bringing examples into the situation and blaming idols. I agree with what you said alot. The example that comes in mind after reading Australia is Blackpink's Rosé. She was living in australia for most of her life and I think she only lived in Korea for 4 years max as a child. I think she lived in Korea until she was 5 or 6 years old actually then she moved to Australia. (I CAN BE WRONG) She auditioned at 15 and got in, dropped out of school and shifted to a whole new country. Ofc, she is korean so she knew how to speak Korean but her skills were lacking alot due to being raised in Australia for majority of her developing period. Idk how cool your parents have to be to just agree on sending you to a entertainment company all alone for how many years, drop out of school like she did to leave for YGE, I mean don't these parents fear that at such a young of 15 (I am talking about Rosé) what if something bad happens? Entertainment companies, especially in KPOP have a bad repo, her parents were Korean who lived in Korea for most of their life so I am sure they knew something. This is not even about Rosie or her parents, the same storyline or thing has been repeated by so many foreign idols that are here with us today. How can parents let young childs, especially females leave alone, drop out of schools, stay there for how many years with no adult supervision. Though, I am sure they feel relieved that phones are available for contact but so many times companies confisticate phones of trainees. Don't they feel worried sending their child to a unknown dorm to grow and live their teen years with a money-hungry company to take care of them but even if they ignore this, imagine your chilf doing all this without phones as they are taken away, who knows something happens, how will they contact you and how will you come to their rescue when you live in a whole another country. Sorry for the long reply. Truly my bad.
💯 They know what type of industry they’re walking into, and they still choose to do it. That doesn’t mean the industry doesn’t need to make improvements and change the way trainees and nugus are treated. It does mean the idols and their parents knew the risks and pitfalls of the industry and still chose to sign those contracts because they value money and fame more than the mistreatment.
Considering how many of them took their lives, yes they are oppressed and miserable. Just look at KG's letter about leaving VCha. Your post reads ignorant and naive. It's not as obvious that idols are miserable bc they're taught to hide it, seeing as idols are all about a manufactured image of perfection. Have you ever seen someone work long hours with very little rest, very little control of their life and schedule, sometimes for surprisingly low wages, all the while being scrutinized by the public and walk in eggshells about normal adult things like dating in case of a dating scandal that can cancel your career and be happy? Oh forgot the forced diets too. Had the idol lifestyle and work environment allowed for more freedom in an idol's life then I would've agreed with your post.
I mean you're pulling data points with zero context.
What is the national suicide rate in general for that age group? What is the suicide rate nationally? What is the global suicide rate for that age demo?
How does that training compare to the national mentality? Are you looking at it from a western view? Where we view work life balance, training, differently?
I grew up training to be a professional dancer. I think thats a pretty similar lifestyle. It's hard. But it's worth it.
There was this article back in 2018 or 2019. It discussed how there was an increase of kids/teens joining company to become idols and how the parents were the ones pushing their kids into it. These kids had no interest in becoming idols but their parents were obsessed with their kids becoming the next big thing. In that regard, the parents are at fault.
There have also been instances where parents were not aware of what was going on with their kids while they were with the companies. i still hold the parents responsible for this. If they can't communicate with their kids, if they see the conditions in which their kids are in, that should have set red flags. The parents should have stepped in and pull out their kids.
Kpop uses the idol training system, where teenagers sign to companies and are trained in vocals and dance until they are ready to debut. Kpop is known for being about the finished product, a perfect person, better than human. I have some issues with the training system though. Sometimes I'm watching an idol struggling to keep up with simple choreo while lipsyncing to an offbeat rap or unsupported singing and I wonder what the hell is going on with their coaches?
Obviously weaker dancers/singers get more criticism. I don't really think it's their fault. I doubt there's a single group out there where every member has a basic level of technique in vocals/dance. But surely that's an issue - in an industry where EVERY idol is professionally trained for years [very rarely less], how can this be? Surely if companies hired proper coaches, even the least naturally talented idols could hold their own? When I watch clips of idols predebut, its all just them practicing for / doing evaluations. I think we all know the 'mentors' on shows like Girl's Planet 999 haven't a fucking clue what they're doing, so I don't really have high hopes for what is happening behind the scenes.
And it's frustrating because there's so many lead dancers who could improve to main, so many main dancers who could become professional - in fact on Street Woman Fighter we saw how professionals view idols. I'm not even a trained singer but it's nearly painful watching practically every idol who's part of a vocal line strain every single high note. Idols who get amazing training before signing to a company seem to just ... stagnate when they debut.
There's also this thing fans spread about idols 'improving every comeback'. I'm not seeing it tbh. I honestly think companies don't train their idols adequately and then just make them practice their songs. I have seen a couple of idols talk about their vocal lessons but with dance as far as I know they probably just practice their choreo and hope for the best. Of course they may just be giving them stamina training, but name a single group who has sung a stable live while dancing in the past year.
Honestly I don't really know how to end a rant like this. It's just ironic that an industry known for producing perfect idols can't give them basic groundings on what is literally their job.
One of the reasons I stopped watching survival shows. Some of the mentors just go there and give evaluations, and they just leave it up to the trainees to figure it out. Even if we don't know how they are trained, we can clearly tell they aren't trained that well.
Like, if we compare a licensed vocal trainer/coach for musicals, you would see that they do more than just listen and tell them their mistakes. Not saying the vocal trainers in the survival shows aren't good, but it's just the teaching method they use is completely different. The same goes for dance coaches, idk how they are taught but it also seems different. Like, they dont seem to teach them how to be a dancer, but rather a performer. Which is I get it, but at the same time I think it's better to teach them to be a dancer because I personally find it more advantageous for them. The rapping, I dont think I even have to talk about it. They seem to make a low effort in teaching these idols about rap culture in particular.
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The first paragraph is legit GP999, I still don't understand what mnet wanted to do with it.
Also, they debut idols early and younger over more experienced trainees that are older cause they have to think about popularity. Also, many companies can't afford the best teachers for their trainees so the trainee system mainly benefits richer companies but even richer companies see that talent doesn't automatically provide success. The most successful groups don't have the best vocals, dance or raps. The music industry has a factor of luck in it doesn't mean idols don't work hard but many groups need like a blow up song to get really popular and even maintain popularity and relevance. I stan groups like BTS, BP, and EXO and I know that they aren't perfect in every single factor or all members being all rounder but they did have blow up songs and worked to maintain popularity and relevancy.
This! One of the reasons is that so many idol are debuting young when they are not even ready to show what they got yet. Sure people improve as time goes but they still need training for that.
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Some idols just aren’t good or have a room for improvement. Let’s face reality not everyone is hard working.
True, majority of idols would either stagnant or regress when it comes to their skills. Taemin is the only idol that I have seen that improve his vocals from bottom to top, and that really shows you that majority of idols won't risk to train more for their lacking skills. Fans are delusional thinking that their idols are improving, when in fact it's not.
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Coaches can only do just that - coach. You can’t create a singing, dancing machine during a few lessons, especially if that person lacks drive and personal responsibility for their own improvement
It’s the same with most things; you can throw any amount of resources at any project but unless there’s a drive and a want to make it work, it won’t
In reality, it’s got nothing to do with the system and all to do with the individual
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Companies don't train idols to become perfect performers. Idols are trained enough to sing and dance in a serviceable manner, and become part of a debut lineup if they sound and look cohesive as a group. If you want superior live vocals or superb dancing all day everyday, you are looking in the wrong place.
Idols are the product, and the music and performance are the vehicles. Idols are trained enough in dance to carry a stage, and to sing enough to carry out the producer's instructions in the recording booth.
Yes, there are exceptions, but that's what they are: exceptions, not the rule.
Even with all that said, idols are worked to the bone and have to deal with so much crap. I admire idols for their work ethic where they do the best they can with what they have, while maintaining a certain fortitude to deal with the struggle of fame.
So I know that idols as trainees go through years of classes to get better at what they do, choreo rap singing etc. But i’ve seen idols like Kard’s Jiwoo and Loona’s Olivia and they both trained “for a day” or “less than a day” for debut. Like how does that work? isn’t preparing for a debut also considered training? When do they get to learn all the choreography, songs etc? Like am I taking the whole “day” word way too seriously? How can all of it be packed for in a day??
Baekhyun only trained for a couple of months before debut, but he’s an incredible idol. He very likely had vocal training before coming to SM because his vocal skills are top notch. He’s also a great dancer. There’s just some people with a ton of raw talent and “it factor” who get the opportunity to debut quickly when combined with previous training.
Other examples include Jimin (trained for 1 year) and Kazuha (trained for 6 months). Both had prior dance training, which tracks with HYBE as they prioritize performance skills.
I'm pretty sure he was approached by an SM agent while he was training riffs or something for his vocal class, so he definitely had training in this regard
Most of them train elsewhere before joining the company that debuts them that quickly.
They debut in a day since that's how long it takes them from joining the company to be selected to debut.
I don't know about Jiwoo but most Loona girls got little to no training in BBC before they debuted(except Hyunjin)
Jiwoo used to be an FNC (CNBLUE, N.Flying, SF9, Cherry Bullet, P1Harmony) trainee for 5 years so she already had training experience, she also didn’t debut straight away in DSP she just recorded their single Oh NaNa the first day, KARD debuted 2 months after Jiwoo joined
It’s kind of similar to how VIVIZ were set to debut straight away since they were Gfriend members and had prior training (and were successful idols but ignore that part) experience
Olivia she had training at FNC Academy. She was already learning how to dance and seeing there. The person who literally has the shortest training period is Wonder Girls Yeeun, she literally didn’t have one so she officially holds the record😂
In Yeeun case she auditioned and literally A few days later the group debut. She literally was selected on the spot right after her audition to join wonder girls.
Most of these idols have previous experience in other private training academies. These days if you read up on idol's profile, you can see that many of them are former students of prominent training academies such as Def Dance School, FNC Academy etc. Some other idols with short training time were members of actual dance crew (like Shotaro) or were taking a lot of vocal lessons with goals of attending music school for college (Beakhyun, Chen, Apink Eunji).
And when these articles say "a day", it most likely means these idols were chosen to be a part of their group after 1 day of consideration from the company. It's not like they were going to debut the very next day after being accepted, they still have to train a bit more, learn the choreo and record the song and what not.
being an idol is a job n its not a normal one!! their schedules aren’t like avg people with 9-5s who clock in and out. performances, rehearsals, travel, recordings, and content filming can take hours. that doesn’t mean idols can’t be overworked, because they definitely can and companies should take better care of them. but you can’t compare being an idol to a normal 9–5. some people think idols just train for a couple hours a day. no 😭 training 4–8 hours a day is normal for them. it’s not just about being overworked either. their bodies are constantly under pressure from intense choreos, performances, and promotions. injuries and getting sick happen, and that doesn’t automatically mean the company is abusing them. this is just the reality of the job!!
Also let's add the fact that most of idols have another job outside of being idols. We always have in mind the big idols, but most of them can't even pay back debts and need to find other way to do it. I remember a Crayon Pop member explaining that at some point they had to pay themselves for some group activities. I wanted to add this because some people always have this idea of "but nugu don't always have things to do" but in reality they still have other things to do since they LOOSE money by being idols :/
Not only that, but unfortunately, their job also has an age cap, so getting as much done as soon and as often as possible is a top priority for these companies. I'm sure there are exceptions, but there's a reason the younger groups are insanely active 24/7.
i've always thought idol promoting schedules are insane, specifically when it comes to music shows, like imagine having to wake up at like 3 am to record a performance for some trashy music show that lasts about three minutes. and afaik, they do multiple takes but the broadcast doesn't even include their live voices!
Kian84 - (webtoon artist turned variety star) sort of did a ride along with "Say My Name" - I didnt realize how exhausting promotions are. Unfortunately there are no english subs but its sort of structured like a day in the life so you can follow along. I can sort of get why some idols can get pissed, hell I dont know how they find it in themselves to try to be cheerful.
Day starts 3 am, they travel to the studio, hair and makeup takes an hour or so - then they do rehearsals and do the final shot. all through that, they wear skimpy outfits and when not on call they wrap up because I dont think they heat those waiting rooms. after filming they do a fanmeet outside, then do individual schedules. then late in the afternoon, they have fansigns. to top it off, their day doesnt end there, they have practice in the evening. You really have to want this life. you can watch it here; https://youtu.be/G0sOX1ZgCR0
There's probably various reasons why, but I bet the time (and energy) commitment is why a bunch of senior idols (Onew and Taeyeon, for example) have chosen to not promote on music shows. I know fans want to see it... and obviously, I wouldn't say no to seeing it either... but I totally get why they may choose not to go. It takes up the whole day, it doesn't give you as much visibility as it used to in the past, and it's exhausting.
I remember when normal promotion length was atleast a month. These days most kpop groups keep it to 2 weeks for which I am glad.
Back in early 2nd gen, the norm was 2-3 months for some reason.
it's because senior idols no more need music shows to promote. they already have established fans who will buy their album. meanwhile, rookies need it. many fancams and stage go viral and help them get recognized.
Senior idols who do go often only do pre-recording (and often at a slightly better time like late night or mid-morning, not the 2-5am ones) and then show up again for the interview + first place announcements. They go do other schedules, eat etc. in the time between. So it's a little better, but I still understand why they might choose not to go.
At risk of being whataboutism guy, it's like that in entertainment buisness all over the globe, hardly limited to idol. I can't personallly ever see myself even working as a staff member in that field, but apparently there is enough willing people to keep it rolling.
EDIT ooops double negative.
yes omg this reminded me of miley cirus interview where she reads her schedule from when she was like 15 and she did not have a single moment to rest, she barely even had time to sleep
In the broader context, Koreans in general work extremely hard and have long hours. Even if they choose a more normal job, they might still be worked to the bone.
humans can be passionate about stuff and dedicate themselves to it, it's not everyone, but it's not uncommon too.
think actors for example, saw an interview with David Corenswet (new superman) and he said he spent TEN HOURS in his costume, hanging by wires in his trunks shooting flying scenes. For pirates of the Caribbean they spent the whole day in water, feeling cold and wet. Lord of the Rings, hours putting on make up and prosthetics to them climb a mountain in the snow to shoot. Why would anyone want to be an actor?
or an athlete who has to train every day, including holidays and weekends, while minding their diets for whole years for competitions they know their best shot is coming 20th, why would people want to be athletes?
or compare to people who play instruments for 12+ hours a day cause they love it, authors who spend weeks sleeping 3, 4 hours a day to write what they want before inspiration leaves, ballerinas who stay in the studio all day and then have performances at night, normal people who get home after working the whole day and still go through the night reading or playing games... I could go on and on, but I think the why you talk about is a much deeper question on psychology and biology of humanity, why and how do humans endure so much for what they want? Why do some of us even like these strenuous conditions? Why some humans simply don't and give up as soon as it gets hard? etc and etc
The only good reply here!
thanks lol
I think one thing people need to understand is work culture in South Korea. This schedule isn’t limited to idols.
Most young graduates in Korea work as unpaid or poorly paid interns for between 1-3 years minimum. They often get up early and finish work extremely late.
It’s almost impossible to take time off work for holidays or personal leave and if they complain they are criticised and told that they are the issue.
It’s part of the problem with regard to the birth rate.
The bigger issue is that retirement can be imposed and it’s legal to move older staff members to lesser paying roles despite their experience or time with the company. So many have to save from a young age for retirement.
It’s also widely accepted that many young people will never be able to own property these days.
Being an idol is hard and difficult but it’s a gamble that could pay not only for your future but your families too.
Too many people comment on Korean culture and life without ever truly understanding the culture and the history of why it is how it is.
People forget that until the mid nineties South Korea was extremely poor and still to this day this has left a huge impact on its society.
Being an idol isn’t something I would choose for myself but I would never look down on someone for trying.
Hi everyone! I've been a fan of kpop, moreso k hip-hop, since the BIGBANG debut days, so I'm very familiar with the strenuous, time consuming process that trainees have to undergo to even debut in the industry. However, one thing I've never been able to understand is the origin of this strenuous, time consuming process that idols must endure to become a success.
What I'm referring to is joining the entertainment company at a very young age (middle school for a lot), having 12-16 hour average schedules, extreme dieting and weight restrictions, fitting a certain "image" of perfection both social life wise and in appearance (plastic surgeries, botox for fat removal), etc. It's more commonly seen among newer gen idols so I'm assuming part of the reason these standards exist is because they evolved over time with the national beauty trends.
But where did this idea come from in the first place? That's what I'm curious about here. As newer generations of idols debut, the groups become more and more homogenous in appearance and music style. Where did the idea of female idols having to weigh no more than 49kg begin? Why do new trainees have to be between the ages of 11 ish - 18 or else they're considered too old to be an idol? What benefits does 12-16 hour schedules give to idols that makes it worth it? I know that practice makes perfect, but they really take it to the extreme here. Also, where did the dominant trend of idol groups come from? It's more common in Asian music culture to have group artists as opposed to solo artists, so I'm wondering how that came to be.
I don't mean to bring hate or any kind of negativity to idols themselves if it sounded like that anywhere in my post, I'm just genuinely curious where these ideas began. It's so interesting to see the trends evolve since the 2nd gen groups. If anyone has an explanation of anything please comment below! Thank you!
The current idol trainee system was started by SM founder Lee Sooman. Sources say he was inspired by New Kids On The Block when he was in the US and used their model for the first agency trained idol group H.O.T. I see other sources of inspiration as Johny's Enterainment in Japan and Motown Records in the US.
ohhh okay so it was Lee Sooman. This is interesting info, I forgot about H.O.T. wow thank you
Most of what you're listing existed long before K-Pop. However, some particulars such as absurd practice routines/durations came about during early 1st gen. Difference is that some of that started with folks already in their 20s who were older and had experience, so they decided what they were doing. Or teens who already graduated and were working full time. So, when companies wanted to bring those to younger groups they were making to replicate these senior groups, they didn't incorporate them appropriately.
Its the same as it was back then. GD was a trainee for years. He even started out at SM. Taeyang was with him at YG after. T.O.P was initially sent away for being too fat then dropped an insane amount of weight to get a chance at BIGBANG.
BIGBANG IS an exception in many ways but not in the trainee way except TOP who only trained for a year.
Before that and after that the trainee system has persisted.
truee the boys did go through a lot, prob cause they were the first young group YG worked with and one of the first of their kind. actually rewatching the bigbang documentary is what sparked this question in the first place lol. im still wondering why trainees have to go through so much in the first place though
LSM won't admit it and fair game to him because death isn't good enough for Johnny Kitagawa and SK in general wants to pretend Japan doesn't exist (again fair game) but his standards are HEAVILY pulled from the standards Johnny set for his idols and other young jpop idols from the 80s. The extraordinary thinness (always been trendy, but never more so than in the 80s and 90s), being "cute and relatable" (notice how 1st and 2nd gen groups, bgs particularly, have a lot more "ordinary" looking types) over the extreme glamour of 60s motown (another influence obviously, but musically and legally not visually imo and I think that's an important distinction) and contemporary (of the 80s) young western pop idols at the time eg. Madonna, Michael Jackson, the absurd gimmicks some of these groups had (look up Hikaru GENJI)... the extreme youth and focus on barely pubescent looks is just because Johnny was a fucking pedo rapist piece of shit and that was heavily normalised in Japan and tbh the entertainment industry in general until very recently (you could argue it still is) etc etc etc... unfortunately Johnny was an extremely influential man, and LSM was unfortunately correct to mimic his successes even if it came at the cost of so many young men and women. His success lead to more imitators, some straight up, some who put their own twist on his tried-and-true formula, and thus we have kpop as it exists today.
this is a really good answer. i hate it but it explains so much....
Some of this stuff comes from culture, we love young, skinny, pretty people that's why idols are supposed to be young, skinny and pretty. Korea has insane work culture that's why idols works insane hours, just like everybody else.
Hi! I was watching a Seventeen video and it made me wonder—when idols prepare for a comeback, how closely are they actually monitored during dance practice?
Are there choreographers or staff who actively check every member to make sure they're doing the steps exactly right? Or is it more about the overall group vibe—like as long as it looks good together, small differences don't matter?
Basically: do they have to “pass” some kind of individual test to prove they’ve mastered the choreo, or is it more self-regulated within the group?
Maybe someone got an idea about that or at least a opinion. :)
it’s probably slightly different for every group! for bts they have jhope as dance leader teaching, correcting, and modifying choreography and formations but they all monitor together. they shared stories about how they used to pause dance practice videos frame by frame to make sure everyone is in sync, even down to where their eyes are looking. there are also many behind the scene videos of the making of dance and music videos and you’ll see all the members gather around to monitor and if anyone sees something they’re not satisfied with they do it again :)
Individual evaluations seems more of a trainee thing up to debut. For comebacks, they're already an established group so they would train and practice as such. The only exception I could think of is if a new member is being added as that could necessitate a separate training for that member.
They usually practice together with the choreographer / performance director, but no individual test like trainees. After debut I don't think theres any "individual evaluation", its more about how they're doing as a team.
How strict the training are depends on what kind of group they are though, like svt are famous for dance but other groups, for example btob, might not be as strict about dancing
>other groups, for example btob, might not be as strict about dancing
Even then, they've schedule in individual dance practice sessions when necessary.
Like Sungjae popping by before going for separate 'private dance lessons' here before the group practice for an event. To be fair to him, he just finished filming a drama series then, so he was more out-of-practice than the others
So I guess there's still a 'baseline standard' among themselves, even if they appear less strict about dancing..
True, of course its not like they don't care about it at all. I'm just giving examples of different priorities between groups, svt are mostly dance-focused so they will be getting into the finest detail on choreos. Btob are more of a vocal group so their practices and standard would be different
(If its not clear, I'm not downplaying btob's dancing. I love btob, I watched and listened a lot to them, its just that I wanted to try giving examples of how groups training could differ from each other)
Idk about other groups, but with Stray Kids, they have a member who is in charge of choreography and formations, and he makes sure everyone knows their choreo and corrects their mistakes, and stays longer with them teaching them if it's needed. It's Lee Know in Stray Kids, my guess would be that most groups function in the same way and have someone that's in charge of choreo. Here's a clip of them practicing for a Kingdom performance, and another doing Maniac. He has a habit of looking at the mirror and monitoring the members' dance.
True! That's something I haven't thought about. I know with Xikers it's the same. And i mean Seventeen has a whole unit of performers.
For Itzy, they get looked over by the instructor. They get taught the moves, and then discuss the details together. They usually release their dance behinds instead of their recording behinds LMAO
They released one today for GWBG & Kiss and tell!!! Its around 30-50 minutes im pretty sure. They always show the process, their dance skills are so good ❤❤❤
What is the training process for Kpop idols
Key Considerations in the Training Process for K-Pop Idols
Duration: Training can last anywhere from a few months to several years, with many trainees starting as young as 10-12 years old. The average training period is about 3-5 years.
Comprehensive Skill Development: Trainees undergo rigorous training in various areas, including:
Physical Fitness: Trainees often follow strict fitness regimens to maintain stamina and physical appearance, which is crucial in the competitive K-Pop industry.
Mental Resilience: The training process can be mentally and emotionally challenging. Trainees are often subjected to high expectations and must learn to handle criticism and pressure.
Auditions and Evaluations: Regular evaluations by company staff assess trainees' progress. Those who excel may be selected for debut, while others may be encouraged to continue training or may not make the cut.
Group Dynamics: Trainees often work in groups, which helps them develop teamwork skills and learn to collaborate with others, an essential aspect of being in a K-Pop group.
Takeaway: The training process for K-Pop idols is intense and multifaceted, focusing not only on performance skills but also on physical and mental well-being. Aspiring idols should be prepared for a demanding journey that requires dedication, resilience, and a passion for music and performance.
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