Natural Patterns and Structures
The Fibonacci sequence is often observed in nature, particularly in patterns that involve growth or replication. For example, the sequence can be seen in the arrangement of leaves on a stem, the branching of trees, and the pattern of seeds in a sunflower [2:1]
[3:4]. These patterns are not always exact representations of the Fibonacci sequence but tend to follow similar logarithmic spirals due to their efficiency in packing and growth
[3:2].
Mathematical and Computational Uses
In mathematics and computer science, the Fibonacci sequence has several applications. It is used in algorithms for sorting data and creating random numbers [2:1]. The sequence also serves as a test case for evaluating the efficiency of recursive algorithms, where it highlights the inefficiency of naive recursion without memoization
[1:4]
[1:8]. Additionally, Fibonacci numbers are used in certain data structures to optimize actions
[1:2].
Conversion and Estimation
Fibonacci numbers can be used for approximate conversions between miles and kilometers, leveraging the ratio between consecutive Fibonacci numbers [1:2]. This practical application is useful for quick estimations without needing precise calculations.
Financial Systems and Betting
There are betting systems based on Fibonacci numbers, which utilize the sequence's properties to manage risk and potential returns [1:2]. While not universally effective, these systems demonstrate how mathematical sequences can influence decision-making strategies.
Cultural and Philosophical Significance
The Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio are often associated with beauty and harmony in art and architecture. Although some claims about its prevalence in design may be exaggerated, the sequence does appear in various cultural contexts, suggesting a deeper philosophical significance [3:5]. This perception of the sequence contributes to its mystique and popularity beyond purely mathematical applications.
Lately I've been learning a lot about math in nature and its helped me to realise that math is a giant tool we've discovered and thats helped us evolve and since i use things like multiplication and division all the time is there any way the golden ratio and the fibonacci sequence could be any use to me in my life? Im not an engineer or anything i'm just talking about any little differences it could make while i'm just going about my day and i notice it and maybe it could just make a job simpler or something. i love noticing math while im doing something random because it always brings me back to reality. If there are no practical uses for the golden ratio in every day life does anyone have any other math rules, constants or laws that can be used as a life hack every now and then?
The Fibonacci sequence is useful for approximately converting miles to km (e.g. 5 mike's ~8km, 8 miles ~13km etc.)
There's also a betting system based on Fibonacci numbers.
This isn't really an application, but the golden ratio also appears in other random places. For example, 1+1/(1+1/(1+1/(1+1/(...)))) is equal to the golden ratio.
There are data structures based on Fibonacci numbers that allow certain actions to be performed more efficiently.
If you keep drawing uniformly distributed random numbers in the interval (0,1), the expected number of draws until their sum exceeds 1 is e.
If you have, say £100 in a bank paying r% interest, if the interest is paid once at the end of the year, you'll have £100*(1+r) in the account. If the interest is instead paid twice a year at r/2% each time, you'll have £100(1+r/2)^2 . However, if the interest is applied continuously instead such that the annual rate is r%, you'll have £100e^r .
This isn't really related to your question at all, but Benford's law is really cool. It says that the leading digits of real-worod data aren't uniformly distributed. The leading digit is much more likely to be a 1 than a 9. This is used sometimes to check whether data has been forged.
It is useful in programming interviews to see if :
a) interviewee can code a recursive routine
b) then recognize that the runtime for a recursive fibonnaci is actually very horrible and to re-write either using loops or memoization.
c) then recognize that if they're a mathematician, they'd just take one of the many known closed-form formulae for the Fibonacci sequence
this indeed sounds like something a mathematician (who knows nothing of the computational complexity of naively computing \phi^n ) might do
If you're not using infinite precision ints the best answer is a look up table, because the number of valid inputs is tiny.
Loops are better than recursion in this case?
Yes, because the recursive case (unless you use memoization) makes a number of recursive calls proportional to the size of the answer, which is in turn an exponentially function of the input number N.
Counting rabbits.
I think it is moreso that it appears in weird places which makes it interesting
I'm not sure if this qualifies as "application", but it can be shown that successive Fibonacci numbers are the worst case input for the Euclidean algorithm. So they are useful in the sense that they allow us to analyze the computational complexity of a practical algorithm.
I've heard a lot about the amazing geometry of fibonacci and how it it's supposed to be in all nature and that's sacres geometry... But I simply don't see it can some please explain me the hypes of it
Fibonacci was a mathematician who published a book. The entire purpose of the book was to show how much easier it is to do mathematics using Arabic numerals, as opposed to Roman numerals. One example he gave was a simple list of numbers: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89... et cetera. The sequence is formed by adding the two most recent numbers to get the next number.
Not a lot of ELI5 answers, but some good history.
The Fibonacci sequence is a set of numbers with a distinct pattern (explained in other comments). What is important is that the ratio of one number to the one following it is always the same. (The second is always 1.618 times larger than the previous). That is called the golden ratio, and it is the golden ratio that is seen everywhere in nature.
If you’ve seen the image of rectangles that form into a spiral, this is what it means:
The small rectangle has sides with that exact ratio. The long side of that rectangle is the short side of the next, and that rectangle uses the golden ratio. The long side of that one is the short side of the next…. And so on. This creates a spiral pattern, and that pattern, in that ratio, happens all the time. Flowers, tree leaves, and animal shells for example. Always 1.618 times bigger than the previous part.
The number isn’t magical. 1.618 isn’t special. There is just a natural order to things, and we created a numerical system that happens to measure that order at that number.
The second is always 1.618 times larger than the previous
Ehhh... "always" is a bit of a misnomer. "Settles down to depending on how precise you are", maybe.
The more digits of precision, the longer it takes to settle. Graph, Graph of zoomed in portion
Fibonacci | Ratio |
---|---|
0 | n/a |
1 | div by zero |
1 | 1 |
2 | 2 |
3 | 1.5 |
5 | 1.6666666666667 |
8 | 1.6 |
13 | 1.625 |
21 | 1.6153846153846 |
34 | 1.6190476190476 |
55 | 1.6176470588235 |
89 | 1.6181818181818 |
144 | 1.6179775280899 |
233 | 1.6180555555556 |
377 | 1.618025751073 |
610 | 1.6180371352785 |
987 | 1.6180327868853 |
1597 | 1.6180344478217 |
2584 | 1.6180338134001 |
4181 | 1.6180340557276 |
6765 | 1.6180339631667 |
10946 | 1.6180339985218 |
17711 | 1.6180339850174 |
28657 | 1.6180339901756 |
46368 | 1.6180339882053 |
75025 | 1.6180339889579 |
121393 | 1.6180339886704 |
196418 | 1.6180339887802 |
317811 | 1.6180339887383 |
514229 | 1.6180339887543 |
832040 | 1.6180339887482 |
1346269 | 1.6180339887505 |
2178309 | 1.6180339887497 |
3524578 | 1.61803398875 |
5702887 | 1.6180339887499 |
9227465 | 1.6180339887499 |
14930352 | 1.6180339887499 |
24157817 | 1.6180339887499 |
39088169 | 1.6180339887499 |
63245986 | 1.6180339887499 |
102334155 | 1.6180339887499 |
165580141 | 1.6180339887499 |
267914296 | 1.6180339887499 |
433494437 | 1.6180339887499 |
701408733 | 1.6180339887499 |
1134903170 | 1.6180339887499 |
1836311903 | 1.6180339887499 |
2971215073 | 1.6180339887499 |
4807526976 | 1.6180339887499 |
7778742049 | 1.6180339887499 |
It's more appropriate to say that the ratio of consecutive terms approaches the golden ratio. You will never get it exactly this way, since the golden ratio is irrational. Also, the Fibonacci sequence isn't the only one that will do this. Any sequence following the same rule (each element being the sum of the previous two) will do this, no matter what values you start with (other than 2 zeros).
In the Fibonacci sequence, each number is the sum of the two previous ones. It is helpful in computer science, for instance, for creating random numbers and sorting data. Natural examples include the spiral shapes of shells and galaxies.
Natural examples include the spiral shapes of shells and galaxies.
No, those are at best just any logarithmic spirals, the factor is not the golden ratio or otherwise Fibonacci-related.
No, those are at best just any logarithmic spirals, the factor is not the golden ratio or otherwise Fibonacci-related.
It is true in some cases but not all. Even though there may not always be a connection between math and nature, there are still instances where the golden ratio and the Fibonacci sequence can be seen.
There are multiple ways to define Fibonacci numbers:
how it it's supposed to be in all nature and that's sacres geometry...
That's a myth at best, and a lie at worst. There are some very few instances where they somewhat appear, but those are one in a million things. None of the claims of golden ratios appearing within humans, plants or animals has ever withstood scrutiny, sqrt(2), 1.5 and sqrt(3) are just as probable and nonsensical.
Edit: spelling.
I can't remember the exact video (I think it was numberphile on YT), but it explained that spiral patterns with irrational ratios tend to be the most efficient use of space, which is why we see them in nature.
The sunflower example was used to demonstrate how you can fit more seeds per layer as the ratio becomes more irrational.
The Fibonacci sequence appears naturally, but so do similar sequences. From that, I wouldn't say it's a myth, but more of an oversimplification.
Are Fibonacci numbers different than the golden ratio? Cuz to me with no discerning eye, I find it convincing enough when they show that curve on like acorns and stuff
The golden ratio is obtained by dividing a Fibonacci number by its previous number.
As you do this for larger and larger Fibonacci numbers, you get closer and closer to the golden ratio (phi)
φ ~ 1.618 is the golden ratio, satisfying φ^2 = φ + 1. By solving this equation, this means that φ = (1 + sqrt(5)) / 2, where sqrt(5) is the square root of 5.
The formula describes how to get the Fibonacci numbers from φ alone. Actually, it can be simplified a bit: multiply φ a bunch of times with itself, divide the result by sqrt(5), and then round to the nearest integer; you will get a Fibonacci number. Or as a formula: round( φ^^n / sqrt(5) ).
That second term (-1/φ)^n / sqrt(5) is very small, especially if n is large, and is just the "correction" to get to the nearest integer.
It’s found in commonly through nature and often in design (whether intended or by coincidence). Was wondering if anyone knew exactly why it was so common especially in nature.
It's because the sequence is usually found in optimized structures and systems. Nature tends to reach it through trial and error, but as long as the more optimal arrangements keep reproducing or surviving more than the least optimal, they will gradually select systems that are closer and closer to one represented by the Fibonacci sequence. As to why the sequence is found in optimized systems, it's because the sequence is an offset of the golden ratio, and that is an important relationship ratio in a lot of different natural systems.
I remember I was asked to write a short paper on why the golden ratio is significant in High School. I read about how lots of people considered it sacred or something. My conclusion was that it isn't really any more or less special than the number 2, that we also see a lot of in nature. 2 eyes, 2 sex chromosomes, mirror symmetry in body shapes in many organisms (2 halves).
The number 2 is just mundane compared to an irrational number, and our brains weren't optimized to think about numbers like that, so we add a lot of meaning to it. It serves a purpose, but so does having two eyes for humans (binocular vision).
And then there's the echinoderms. Nothing like some confusing radial symmetry to throw everything off lol
It has nothing to do with the rotation of the universe, galaxy, solar system or planet?
You taught me something tonight. Thanks for the great explanation.
What’s a fibbachichi?
Damn this person is smart.
Check out this video and the two after it for a really great explanation about Fibonacci and Fibonacci-like spirals in nature.
Vi Hart is a lovely nerd
It kind of isn't. There are lots of logarithmic spirals in nature, but not all logarithmic spirals are Fibonacci spirals.
EDIT: this isn't to say that Fibonacci numbers never turn up in nature. They are quite common in botany, for the patterns of seed growth in sunflower heads and pine cones, but it turns out that this is because logarithmic spirals with a rate of turn close to the golden ratio pack very efficiently. Also, the relationship between the Fibonacci numbers and the Golden Ratio is slightly deceptive. While the ratio between consecutive terms of the Fibonacci sequence does tend towards phi, this is not a particular property of that exact sequence, but is also true of all recursive sequences of the form
a, b, (a+b), ((a+b)+b)...
It doesn’t. Not really.
It does appear roughly to systems that tend to compound as they grow but even then it’s not exactly the golden ratio.
People tend to misrepresent any logarithmic spiral as the golden spiral.
You can find the number 1.6 everywhere If you look enough.
Tldr: the movie nymphonaniac made us think that any logarithmic spiral is connected to the golden ratio. It’s not. It’s a myth.
There's a joke about spelling and the Catholic church in this somewhere
It’s super common because it’s what happens when you have exponential growth with discrete things.
Exponential growth is when the amount you gain depends on the amount you have. Just like multiplying cells…the more cells that are reproducing, the faster you grow.
But you can’t have half a cell…the integer version of exponential growth, which is basically all cell division or any kind of replication of discrete units, is the Fibonacci sequence. If it shows up in a spiral structure, which is super common for anything that grows attached to its predecessor like shells or flowers, you get a Fibonacci spiral.
I found this guys work a while back http://metatron216.co.za/
You may enjoy it. Also check out the film Pi from 1998.
When taking the number in the ones column only, the Fibonacci sequence repeats after 60.
When you inscribe these numbers around a circle. The cardinal directions are all 0.
Very interesting. I'm definitely going to check this guy out.
I saw Pi years ago. I'll take this as a sign to reexamine it.
Thanks a bunch for the comment. I didn't know about the Fibonacci Sequence repeating or cardinal directions thing. Makes me think this reality was intelligently designed to evolve and repeat
Did you see my comment on the holo fractal post on digital addition lol. Looks cool
No but I'll look for it. I've been toying with this sequence for several months now
Very interesting. Is there anything to takeaway from this in particular?
Nothing that I've figured out yet besides it just being this wild number sequence. It mirrors and repeats itself within itself all over the place and or reduces to 9.
It's sorta difficult to explain but if you take the first horizontal row of 9's and "fold it" on the 9 horizontal. All of the numbers which land on top of each other will add up to 9.
Same thing happens if you take the first horizontal 4/5 row and "fold it" in between the 4/5 The numbers landing on each other will equal 9...
Sudoku !
Looks like a game of minesweeper.
Implying anyone knew how to play it.
Looks like some artwork from Allyson Grey , wife of Alex Grey
I’ve always hated math. I’ve always seen it as equations and algorithms and not much more. I failed algebra in high school and have kept a healthy distance from the subject since then.
Unfortunately, I can’t get a degree without a maths credit :/ so here I am, in a course called the heart of mathematics which is supposed to be popular among non-math majors. It focuses more on the thought processes and real world application of higher mathematics than just solving equations.
I’ve been assigned a TEN PAGE PAPER for this class on the Fibonacci sequence (including real world application, the golden spiral, ect)🙃. I’ve never heard of this concept before this course, and I’ve been grappling with it for weeks now. What’s led me to you lovely people are these philosophical questions I have on the subject.
How can we be SURE that these numbers appearing in nature aren’t coincidental? Our brains are predisposed to see and look for patterns, whether they really exist or not. Same question about the golden ratio/spiral- is it really that prevalent in art/architecture/nature? It is such an exact ratio, and anything varying from it even a little bit does not conform. Are we just seeing it everywhere because we want to??
Speaking of the golden spiral/ratio/rectangle- how can we definitively call it “perfect” and “the most aesthetically pleasing ratio” to (at least most) humans? What makes it perfect? WHY is it perfect?
The crux of the question. Is mathematics a man-made concept, or one we merely discovered? If it’s man-made, is all our research into the Fibonacci sequence a point of diminishing returns? If it’s discovered, does it point to a deeper meaning in the universe? Perhaps existence isn’t as random as we think?
For context, I’m a relatively spiritual person. I believe that life is so rare and so random that statistically, the only way to describe it is miraculous. Our reason for being literally cannot be explained and is far beyond our realm of knowledge. In the same vein, we as humans understand next to nothing about reality. There are countless examples of the most brilliant people in history being proven wrong on some level (hello Galileo, Newton, Einstein, ect). Any good scientist understands that the things we do know are but a drop in the ocean.
BUT of course I also believe in changing my opinion when presented with new evidence, so I’ve been thinking about this a LOT. I suppose this is the conversation I’m looking to start here: are mathematic concepts like the Fibonacci Sequence sufficient evidence in proving anything about the universe?
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I’ve always hated math. I’ve always seen it as equations and algorithms and not much more. I failed algebra in high school and have kept a healthy distance from the subject since then.
Unfortunately, I can’t get a degree without a maths credit :/ so here I am, in a course called the heart of mathematics which is supposed to be popular among non-math majors. It focuses more on the thought processes and real world application of higher mathematics than just solving equations.
I’ve been assigned a TEN PAGE PAPER for this class on the Fibonacci sequence (including real world application, the golden spiral, ect)🙃. I’ve never heard of this concept before this course, and I’ve been grappling with it for weeks now. What’s led me to you lovely people are these philosophical questions I have on the subject.
How can we be SURE that these numbers appearing in nature aren’t coincidental? Our brains are predisposed to see and look for patterns, whether they really exist or not. Same question about the golden ratio/spiral- is it really that prevalent in art/architecture/nature? It is such an exact ratio, and anything varying from it even a little bit does not conform. Are we just seeing it everywhere because we want to??
Speaking of the golden spiral/ratio/rectangle- how can we definitively call it “perfect” and “the most aesthetically pleasing ratio” to (at least most) humans? What makes it perfect? WHY is it perfect?
The crux of the question. Is mathematics a man-made concept, or one we merely discovered? If it’s man-made, is all our research into the Fibonacci sequence a point of diminishing returns? If it’s discovered, does it point to a deeper meaning in the universe? Perhaps existence isn’t as random as we think?
For context, I’m a relatively spiritual person. I believe that life is so rare and so random that statistically, the only way to describe it is miraculous. Our reason for being literally cannot be explained and is far beyond our realm of knowledge. In the same vein, we as humans understand next to nothing about reality. There are countless examples of the most brilliant people in history being proven wrong on some level (hello Galileo, Newton, Einstein, ect). Any good scientist understands that the things we do know are but a drop in the ocean.
BUT of course I also believe in changing my opinion when presented with new evidence, so I’ve been thinking about this a LOT. I suppose this is the conversation I’m looking to start here: are mathematic concepts like the Fibonacci Sequence sufficient evidence in proving anything about the universe?
To answer your last question in bold, math doesn't directly prove anything at all about reality. The fact that I can start with some numbers, make up some rules about manipulating those numbers, and then use those rules to generate interesting patterns is cool all by itself. It doesn't have to model anything in reality and often times mathematicians study collections of rules and their consequences without worrying about whether there are any physical processes which behave that way.
Math is just a tool, and sometimes we find things in the universe which behave like some mathmatical structure which we've studied. When that happens, we can use our mathematical knowledge to make predictions about the corresponding processes in reality which appear to be modeled by our mathematical structure. But doing this doesn't prove anything about reality. The second we discover that our model doesn't accurately reflect reality, we need to either abandon our model or enhance it to include new information. But even when that happens, the things we were able to prove about the old model aren't suddenly wrong or invalid. It's just that that particular model no longer applies to the situation. The same model might still apply to some other situation however.
So the answers to your questions are:
2b) I do believe that the golden ratio does show up in art quite a bit, but that's more a question for an art history expert. And as to why it's considered an aethetically pleasing ratio, I have no idea. Certainly there's no mathematical way to approach the question. It's more of a question about human psychology.
And regarding your contextual paragraph. Mathematicians are often even more aware of how much we don't know than scientists and engineers. Literally every time we answer a question, we end up with 10 new ones. There is no end to the infinite complexity of mathematics and that's just something we have to live with.
Thanks for your insight! I see what you mean and I suppose I understand some people’s fascination with mathematics, but to me it seems like a whole lot of headaches just for something that can’t directly prove anything about reality. It is quite interesting how it works though, almost like an art of sorts.
I know these questions come from more of a philosophical perspective, but I’m not sure what other subreddit to turn to in order to get a perspective from mathematicians. I’ve been thinking a lot about all of this for the past few weeks and just wanted some perspective from “left brained” individuals. It’s all so complicated and my research has shown me WILDLY different theories and explanations for the Fibonacci sequence/golden ratio. I figure the reason for that is different philosophical standings on the matter of mathematics itself.
Again thank you for bearing with me and answering with such detail.
You're absolutely right that it isn't fun for everyone. But yes, most mathematicians I know appreciate math simply for the aesthetic beauty and aren't worried about modeling things in reality. Its a wonderful game that you can spend your life playing, and some of us are lucky enough to be paid to play that game.
Also, there was nothing wrong about you asking the question here. Math history and math philosophy are occasionally discussed even though they aren't central to the core mission of this subreddit which is to help people learn math. Incidentally, the fact that there are wildly different explanations should give you plenty to write about.
How can we be SURE that these numbers appearing in nature aren’t coincidental?
Sometimes they are coincidence. The closely-related "Lucas numbers" often appear in plants and can be mistaken for Fibonacci numbers. But a lot of the time it really is the Fibonacci numbers and the golden ratio.
I highly recommend ViHart's triple of videos
In particular, part 2 gives an intuitive idea about why Fibonacci spirals are prevalent in flowers, pinecones, etc., and part 3 adds a biological process to that idea.
is it really that prevalent in art/architecture/ [...] how can we definitively call it “perfect” and “the most aesthetically pleasing ratio” to (at least most) humans?
This is, imo, the most overblown claim about the golden ratio. It's nice enough, but the ratios √2 ≈ 1.414 and 3/2 = 1.5 and φ ≈ 1.618 all have their uses. I don't think the golden ratio looks better than other rectangles.
On the other hand, the golden ratio is also sometimes referred to as "the most irrational number", and there is in fact a precise and rigorous sense in which this is 100% true. If you want to approximate, for example, π = 3.1415926... by a fraction, you could use 31/10 = 3.1 or 314/100 = 3.14 or 314159/100000 = 3.14159, and in general bigger denominators give you better approximations (bigger denominators aren't always better: 22/7 = 3.1̄4̄2̄8̄5̄7̄ is actually closer to π than 314/100 is despite 7 being way smaller than 100). In turns out that if you look at various numbers and how many digits you can get correct from fractions with bigger and bigger denominators, φ is absolutely terrible (it's the "most irrational") in the sense that you need particularly large denominators in order to get remotely good approximations.
Is mathematics a man-made concept, or one we merely discovered?
This is a complex philosophical question that been debated for centuries and has no clear answer. The numbers 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, and 55 really do appear in nature a lot. Formula like "Fₙ = Fₙ₋₁ + Fₙ₋₂" or "φ = (1+√5)/2" are certainly man-made.
are mathematic concepts like the Fibonacci Sequence sufficient evidence in proving anything about the universe?
Different people may have different answers. I would say, "No, and it's not supposed to". Very often mathematics is a useful tool for natural scientists to use, but fundamentally mathematics proves facts about mathematics (not necessarily about the physical universe). Whether the Fibonacci numbers exist in nature doesn't actually affect any of the mathematical results about them.
-Thank you so much for the video recommendations, I’ll check them out!
-Yeah okay I’m learning that I don’t understand rational numbers and i have no desire to. That paragraph hurt my brain😅.
-Can’t thank you enough for your last paragraph, I’ve been trying so hard to intertwine my understanding of mathematics with my understanding of the real world that I hadn’t considered there might be no relation at all. Maybe it’s just something that makes us feel like we understand the universe & makes us feel better about existing at all.
I don’t understand rational numbers...
It's actually very very very simple: one whole number divided by another (actually, also negatives of those). Examples include 1/2 and 3/4 and 286/17. The word "fraction" is basically the same thing. Literally any time your cutting anything into any number of equal pieces, you're creating a rational number.
What's not obvious (in fact, Greek mathematicians did not understand this) is that some numbers can't be formed this way. 314159/100000 is pretty close to π, but it's not actually π, and in fact no rational number is.
..and i have no desire to.
I can't help you there. If you are dead set on hating mathematics then you will hate mathematics. I think you're cutting yourself off from a lot of cool things by making that choice. But it's your choice.
I don't think the golden ratio looks better than other rectangles.
In fact, I kind of prefer 1:√2. It's got a fascinating, almost fractal-like quality to it (the way you can just keep dividing it in half and arriving at the exact same rectangle). This is one of the downsides to being an American (letter paper!)
I also like full screen (4:3) more than widescreen (16:9), but I'm probably in the minority. (Widescreen is fairly close to a golden rectangle but a little wider)
The reason is because its irrationality lends itself nicely to certain optimisations, which have an advantage over other arrangements. For example, if a plant is growing leaves around its stem and we want to maximise sun exposure, it would be better for the angle between each leaf to be irrational, since that means that they are less likely to overlap (no matter how many leaves, they will still be slightly offset). It is properties like this that make the golden ratio appear in nature.
I may be wrong about this, but I would imagine that we perceive it to be beautiful because it is found in nature. That being said, it being described as perfect doesn't really have any relation to any property of the ratio.
This is more of a philosophical question, so I'll address your later point about reality. Mathematics isn't really a method of proving things about reality on its own. It's only when it is used in the frameworks of other disciplines, like physics, that it really has that power.
What maths does is allow us to start with a set of assumptions (axioms) and derive consequences from this. We can change those axioms, and we can get different consequences.
If you've read this far, you've earned a fun fact that I found fascinating when I first learned it. As you know, the Fibonacci sequence is formed by starting with the numbers 0, 1 (or 1, 1), and adding the previous two numbers together. The ratio between the terms eventually approaches the golden ratio. However, this isn't an inherent property of the starting numbers, but from how you build future terms. In fact, no matter what two numbers you start with (you could start with -11 and 32, or 10000 and 77), and the ratio would still approach the golden ratio.
The "golden ratio" stuff is a hotbed of quackery, due to the kind of pareidolia you're alluding to. It's not everywhere in nature, and its appearance in art is usually deliberate. It sounds exciting if you say that it is, though.
For 3, this is referred to as the formalism versus Platonism debate.
I figured I’d need to address the bias we have in claiming things as “golden”- it’s frustrating and frankly a little disappointing that it’s not some giant universal phenomenon. However, it does stop me from spiraling TOO far down into an existential crisis about reality/a higher power.
I’m curious what you personally believe in regards to question 3?
The "discovered vs. man-made" argument is so trite. If you wrote a 10 page paper on that you'd bore your professors to tears.
I see where you’re coming from but I disagree, I think this is one of the most interesting philosophical questions I’ve ever come across and I’m enjoying digging into all the different perspectives/theories.
I suppose it can get redundant because we don’t actually know the answer, but it’s only 2-3 pages of my paper that addresses the real world application of the Fibonacci sequence/the questions I’m posing.
Mind blown
Educational trash. Love it
Like to mix it up a bit! Keeps things interesting!
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Lateralus
Since it’s the same recurrence relation as the Fibonacci sequence, we have the same general solution f(n)=Cφ^(n)+Dψ^(n). Using initial conditions f(1)=-φ and f(2)=1, we get C=0 and D=1+φ, giving an explicit solution of f(n)=(1+φ)ψ^(n), which sure enough gives f(1)=-φ and f(2)=1. Since |ψ|<1, then powers of ψ get closer and closer to 0, and since ψ<0, the sequence is alternating. Hussah!
Oh god I didn't see that theres phi and psi and thought they are both phi and it made no sense
Haha yeah I wonder if it was chosen specifically because it is so similar
can i still put it on r/unexpectedfactorial ?
It's not the Fibonacci sequence in that case. You can still call it a Lucas sequence though.
Omg he really a BALLER
Angle
Now tell lil o to write a program to print fibonacci series in C
Gist (might be off by one etc):
Generating function for fibonacci
\sum F_n x^n = 1/(1-x-x^2)
Put x = 1/10
It's because what happens when you put the base into the characteristic polynomial of the Fibonacci sequence
ie
Evaluate x^2 - x - 1 for for x = 10
It also means you can work out both what happens in other bases and what happens for other recurrence relations (eg when the next term is the sum of the previous three terms in the sequence instead of the previous two; that would work out to be 1/889).
Doesnt this impy that 1/89 has a non repeating decimal expansion? I thought all rational numbers have a repeating decimal sequence
It implies that fibbonaci numbers have a repeating sequence
Not quite. I'm pretty sure the fibbonacci sequence is non repeating. However what this shows is that a sum of non repeating number can give rise to a repeating number which I find interesting
The title and post is a bit misleading even if it is being truthful. The pic OP posted looks like a decimal expansion at first, but if you look closely at for example 8 and 13, you see that the terms "overlap" and is not actually an expansion. OP never said it was, but that is maybe the joke.
Still cool that that makes a repeating decimal
No, there are multiple digits in the same place in the summands. When you add them up it becomes repeating.
Another post I recently saw observed that 1/7= 0.14+0.0028+0.000056+0.00000112+… where you can see the pattern of the positive powers of two times seven. This might make the pattern seem nonrepeating but when you add them up and carry the digits they do actually repeat.
Most obvious example is probably 10/81, which is 0.12345679012345... and when you look at "why" it skips 8, it's because if you think of it that way, it's actually a non-repeating sequence of all natural numbers, where 10 carries over to 9 which becomes 10 also, carrying over and replacing the 8 with a 9. And this repeats every 9 digits, at which point the next digit carries over by 1.
For reference
Let x be the number above: essentially the sum of 10^(-n) times the nth value of the Fibonacci sequence starting 0,1, ….
The recurrence relation tells us that 10x+x is the sum of 10^(-n) times the Fibonacci sequence starting 1, 2, … which is just the original number shifted left two digits and taking mod 1. so 10x+x+1=100x.
Solve this for x=1/89.
I would think it shows up in any base b for 1/(b^2 - b - 1)
applications of the Fibonacci sequence
Key Applications of the Fibonacci Sequence
Mathematics and Number Theory:
Computer Science:
Biology:
Art and Architecture:
Finance:
Music:
Takeaway: The Fibonacci sequence is not just a mathematical curiosity; it has practical applications across various fields, from nature and biology to finance and art. Understanding its applications can provide insights into patterns and structures in the world around us.
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