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How Musicals Are Developed

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How does one go about making an Broadway musical?
r/musicals • 1
How do you write a musical?
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What is the order of writing a musical??
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How Musicals Are Developed

TL;DR Musicals are developed through a combination of writing, workshops, collaboration, and networking. The process involves creating a compelling story, integrating songs, and refining the production through various stages before potentially reaching Broadway.

Writing the Musical

The initial step in developing a musical is writing the script, often referred to as the "book." This includes the plot, dialogue, and structure of the musical [4:3][5:2]. The book serves as the foundation upon which songs are integrated. Some creators write both the book and the lyrics, while others collaborate with lyricists and composers [4:2]. It's important to ensure that the story is compelling and provides natural opportunities for songs to advance the plot [2:4].

Workshops and Development

Once a preliminary version of the musical is written, it often goes through workshops where actors and singers perform parts of the show. These workshops allow creators to receive feedback and refine the musical [1:1]. Venues like Paper Mill Playhouse and Long Wharf Theater are known for developing shows that may eventually transition to Broadway [1:2]. Workshops can involve seated concert versions or staged readings to test audience reactions and make necessary adjustments [1:1].

Collaboration and Roles

Developing a musical typically involves collaboration among writers, composers, directors, and producers. The roles can vary significantly; some individuals handle multiple aspects of the production, while others focus on specific areas such as writing the book, composing music, or directing [4:1][4:2]. Successful musicals often involve teams where each member brings their expertise to the project.

Getting to Broadway

Transitioning a musical to Broadway requires networking and connections within the industry. Knowing the right people or already having fame can be significant factors [1:1]. Production companies often scout musicals at various stages of development, looking for potential shows to bring to larger venues [1:2]. Documentaries and social media channels can provide insights into this process, showcasing how specific musicals have made their way to Broadway [1:3][1:5].

Understanding the Book and Lyrics

The distinction between the book and lyrics is crucial in musical development. The book refers to the narrative elements—the plot and dialogue—while the lyrics are the words sung in the songs [4:3][5:7]. The bookwriter ensures that the story is effectively told through song, which can be particularly challenging in musicals with extensive sung-through material [5:2]. Understanding these components helps clarify the collaborative nature of musical creation.

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POST SUMMARY • [1]

Summarize

How does one go about making an Broadway musical?

Posted by Chemical_Car6709 · in r/musicals · 4 months ago
6 upvotes on reddit
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ORIGINAL POST

I'm really curious all of a sudden --- how do you make a Broadway musical? I mean after you write it... how do you get it on Broadway? How does something like that happen? Like who do you talk to? Where do you go? I hope my question was understood (let me know if not) and I'd appreciate any and all answers.

6 replies
NoBrother3897 · 4 months ago

Unfortunately for most cases, it’s “you know the right people” or “you’re already famous”.

The other way is often to start putting together a musical in workshops, you might start working with actors and singers once you have a bare bones structure to develop songs. Some of those workshops might be open so that you can receive outside criticism. You might start with a musical wholly written and begin producing it at a very small level so it can go through test audiences. You might have seated concert versions (I think some Hamilton workshops happened this way) just to feel it out.

Often Broadway shows will start somewhere away from Broadway, West end and off west end tend to be cheaper to produce with west end theatres being more comfortable with taking risks (the case with Hadestown). Or they might start in Chicago or LA or another hotspot for theatre activity (25th Annual Putnam Spelling Bee iirc). Some shows start as a part of an arts festival such as Edinburgh Fringe (Six). Before transferring to off Broadway before moving to Broadway. Some bounce between West end and Broadway for a bit while some go on tour before settling in Broadway.

9 upvotes on reddit
PavicaMalic · 4 months ago

Just to add to this good account. A friend of ours works for a production company. They check out musicals in various stages of development and venues. Paper Mill Playhouse (NJ) and Long Wharf (CT) are both venues where shows are developed. There are also some directors who have established a reputation at helping musicals make the transition to Broadway.

1 upvotes on reddit
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Uranus_Hz · 4 months ago

There’s a YT channel that puts out some good musical theater content. I’d suggest watching their documentaries about how Hadestown was developed and also the one about Ride the Cyclone to get an idea.

3 upvotes on reddit
Advanced_Party_3494 · 3 months ago

"Muppets Take Manhattan" is actually a good example if one way that an original show gets to Broadway. Plus, yanno, Muppets.

1 upvotes on reddit
reallifejedi56 · 4 months ago

If you want a good look into a show making its way through the production pipeline right now. Follow the instagram for the show “In Pieces”

A. You’ll fall in love with the show like many others

B. The writer Joey Contreras is really open about the process the show has gone through over the years and what the future options for the show could be

2 upvotes on reddit
Fun-Year-7120 · 4 months ago

Tick tick … BOOM is a literal tutorial.

3 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicals • [2]

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How do you write a musical?

Posted by _newjeans_ · in r/musicals · 5 months ago

I literally don't know if this is the right sub for this bc this was a very spontaneous decision so i'm sorry 😢

Yeah what the title says, how the freak do you write a musical? Like is it really as easy as just planning + plotting and making songs? And then you just get people to voice act? i'm kind of stupid so like please help me understand 😭😭😭

ty for wasting your time helping me 😕❤️

28 upvotes on reddit
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sweeneytveit · 5 months ago

Here's how I would do it:

The first step is to create the story and make sure that it would work as a musical. You make an outline and make sure you have all the elements of a normal story.

Develop your characters. What's their personality? What kind of songs do you picture them singing? What kind of bond or dynamic do they have with the other characters?

Figure out an approximate number of songs you would want. Figure out what characters would sing what songs.

Write the script. This can help to build the story and provide something to help write the songs on.

Then you can go through the outline or storyboard and mark where you want all of the songs.

Then start writing the songs. You can do it by yourself or collaborate with someone else.

Then, get a group together to read the script and sing the songs. See how it works. Then, rewrite as necessary.

And I mean after that, you dive into the production side of things, and idk how that would work.

This is based on nothing but my own experience, which is not much. I like to write, especially scripts, in my free time. I've experimented with writing musicals and have never gotten very far. So take all of this with a grain of salt. But I think this could help you get to a starting point. The most important thing is to try, even if it doesn't work out. Just try. You never know what could happen.

14 upvotes on reddit
_newjeans_ · OP · 5 months ago

this is really in-depth and helpful tysm!!!

3 upvotes on reddit
Horror-Hall7869 · 5 months ago

There's a sub r/musicalwriting that might be more helpful but everything I've seen in the comments is good advice

9 upvotes on reddit
_newjeans_ · OP · 5 months ago

thx for redirecting me lol

5 upvotes on reddit
SuspiciousCareer664 · 5 months ago

I wrote one and it sucks, but I think I sort of got the hang of it. I think the key is figuring out how to make the story compelling, and leaving good spots for songs that move the plot forward. Make sure you figure out the characters and their motivations or it won’t make sense why they do stuff! Hope this helps.

12 upvotes on reddit
SuspiciousCareer664 · 5 months ago

If you know how to write sheet music, that could really help

5 upvotes on reddit
A12086256 · 5 months ago

One note at time.

4 upvotes on reddit
aSingleHelix · 5 months ago

I come to musical theater from an odd angle - I improvise musicals regularly with a live accompanist and a cast of 4-8 vocalists.

I don't have much insight into writing them, but the best (for my money) musical improvisers - the cast of Off Book - is documenting their process of scripting a musical on their podcast feed. If you look for Off Book and then find episodes labeled "On Book" you'll find them. Might be insightful? But also their process might not match what works for you.

3 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicalwriting • [3]

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What is the order of writing a musical??

Posted by Gmtz_2012 · in r/musicalwriting · 20 days ago

I am writing a musical and I want to know what order to do things in for efficiency.

4 upvotes on reddit
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SadBoysenberry6 · 20 days ago

David Spencer, in The Musical Theatre Writers Survival Guide says that “songs eat book”. In other words that you should come up with the plot and dialogue first, and then find moments to replace with song. I personally am a believer that you should write the part that is most exciting to you first.

2 upvotes on reddit
Disastrous_Cap_7580 · 18 days ago

I agree my professor and my mentor said this exact same thing. I now am almost finished with my outline for my "story" musical. I am so excited to get my writing and vision out there.

1 upvotes on reddit
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ColanderResponse · 19 days ago

Journalist: “Mr Sondheim, is it lyrics or music first?”

Sondheim: “The book.”

1 upvotes on reddit
curtishoneycutt · 15 days ago

If you have an idea for a story, try making a loose outline. Don’t worry, it will change. Fill in spots where you have a strong idea for a specific scene or song. And keep filling it in. It’s ok to have big gaps. Then, just like a sudoku or a crossword puzzle, work on what you can based on parts you can connect. Whether that’s a song or dialogue.

1 upvotes on reddit
HFCIV · 20 days ago

Generally, the contract.

4 upvotes on reddit
RemoteWooden5608 · 20 days ago

Sounds like you think making money is a bad thing for an artist.

3 upvotes on reddit
tinyfecklesschild · 20 days ago

Money? Did I say money?

1 upvotes on reddit
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tobeavornot · 20 days ago

One song

Glory

4 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicals • [4]

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I've never understood what the difference between the book and lyrics is

Posted by Suckonherfuckingtoes · in r/musicals · 5 months ago

So I'm writing a musical which is connected to my music theatre novel. I'm writing the script and the music. But when you check up some musicals it says someone wrote the book and someone else may have written the lyrics. But aren't the songs part of the script? In my show I'm just writing the songs as if they are part of the script and incorporating them that way.

Like is it that someone has written a play and given it to someone who will write songs for that play and incorporate them into it?

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Andreiisnthere · 5 months ago

Some people do all three: see Dave Malloy and The Great Comet.

Some people write music and lyrics and partner with someone for the book: Sondheim and James Lapine for Sunday in the Park with George.

Some people write the music and have a partner who does the lyrics and a third person writes the book: Jule Styne, Sondheim and Arthur Laurents for Gypsy.

Other variations exist: Oklahoma! where Oscar Hammerstein did the book and lyrics and Richard Rodgers wrote the music.

Think of the book as the plot and dialogue and how they are presented. The Great Comet had essentially no dialogue and was based on a 90 page section of War and Peace, but somebody had to decide what was left out and how the songs flowed into one another.

6 upvotes on reddit
That-SoCal-Guy · 5 months ago

The book (or libretto) is the story, the plot and dialogue and stage directions and all that.  Think of it as the actual play without the music.   

The lyrics is simply that - lyrics for the song and they are usually in CAPS in the libretto.   

Basically the playwright writes the book.   The songwriter/lyricist writes the lyrics to the songs.  

7 upvotes on reddit
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Thick-Definition7416 · 5 months ago

Book is the story and dialogue - it gives shape to the musical

11 upvotes on reddit
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hamiltrash52 · 5 months ago

Depends on the musical. For something like Mufasa (not a traditional theatre musical but stay with me), Lin Manuel Miranda received a script and found places where he thought a song would fit well and wrote them. Other teams it’s a more collaborative process, where one person might have the story but not necessarily the literary skills to write a book. Or the music but not a plot. Or the music but not the lyrics (see West Side Story).

Not everyone is capable of doing everything themselves or are much better at one side of things than another.

26 upvotes on reddit
Suckonherfuckingtoes · OP · 5 months ago

Ah good, cheers. I get it now. I would collab with people, myself, but I doubt anyone is insane enough to get involved in my weird concepts. I guess we'll see how it all goes in the end though.

8 upvotes on reddit
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DramaMama611 · 5 months ago

The book is the structure of the story... Regardless of whether there is spoken dialogue

54 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicalwriting • [5]

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What does it actually mean to write a book for a musical?

Posted by Right-Purchase7993 · in r/musicalwriting · 7 months ago

Are you actually writing a novel level book, a simplified plot, a script? What are we doing and how do we do it?

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drewduboff · 7 months ago

The book refers to the story beats, plot, and structure. The bookwriter will also contribute dialogue to the musical. It's the bookwriter's job to make sure that the story is being told through song and that can be a more difficult burden with more sungthrough material

2 upvotes on reddit
pdxcomposer · 7 months ago

Fine question, since it's a bit of semantics too.

From a credit standpoint, the credited author (Book by) of same is creating the completed script - and takes credit for play and scene construction, all staging and physical action description and character dialog. As said elsewhere here, much like a playwright who writes a play script sans lyrics. A libretto is this product, but contains the music and song cue instructions and lyric and some book writers are librettists and some are not - it depends chiefly on whether they cover book and lyric.

In the best partnerships, composer, lyricist and playwright would work closely together to develop the show's overall structure, at least through a comprehensive outline stage (beats and actions.) This assures that all partners contribute ideas, come to mutual agreement and proceed to replace sections of the play's action and dialog, with song in a way that provides maximum plot function and moves the story forward in real time.

This also means that while credit is taken by the book author, the actual outline development is by all partners - uncredited by mutual agreement. In fairness, this sort of cross-over works well in all disciplines: the lyricist may provide much useful input on music form and style to the composer, the book writer may provide outstanding lyric subject and ideas to the lyricist. And, in turn, this symbiosis assures that all partners equally understand the mechanics and intentions of the project - what collectively they mean to achieve. Composers, by example, (and I am one) who sit outside these discussions or decisions and simply set the lyrics they are handed, earn all the failure the show gets. Their chosen ignorance of the decisions that took the show off-course are entirely theirs: they could have, should have taken greater interest in those poor choices and decisions as they were being made. It only takes one partner to see a potential problem and bring it to the attention of the others. But, no attention to these things increases the chance of error.

There are many autobiographies written in the subject, plenty form playwrights who are book partners for musical plays. These can give you a very specific understanding how the division of labor and creation is assigned within that partnership, on that project.

8 upvotes on reddit
RezFoo · 7 months ago

So, back when I was working in theater tech in high school, that document we all had copies of, heavily marked up with our own cues, that had dialogue and song lyrics (but not musical notation), was the libretto? All the format guidelines (Dramatist's Guild, French, etc) seem to call that "the script".

Are there industry format guidelines for a Book?

1 upvotes on reddit
pdxcomposer · 7 months ago

Exactly, yes. The published script is the libretto. And, no, the mention of music cues in same does not include the musical score. Merely, "MUSIC IN: Song #006 - Believe Me." Or ..."Music plays under as Bob and Nancy dance." Or...."Music segues...." These are the musical action and cue notes the libretto (script) would carry, that I refer to.

And though script and book may be interchangeable in meaning, without knowing the origin, I have to assume that a script is more specific to plays (sans music and song) and book is more specific to musical plays because it includes lyric and music elements not in the script of a play. Hope this helps.

1 upvotes on reddit
Real-AddVic_e · 7 months ago

Book/ Libretto = Script and lyrics. No musical notation i.e composition , sheet music etc. Check out library etc for some examples of major musicals books for examples of what are included. Good luck!!!

1 upvotes on reddit
rSlashisthenewPewdes · 7 months ago

I think of the “book” as a fully written play, just missing the music.

5 upvotes on reddit
Thelonius-Crunk · 7 months ago

The book is the script and/or structure. It's not an actual book.

8 upvotes on reddit
Thelonius-Crunk · 7 months ago

Also doesn't include the lyrics

4 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicalwriting • [6]

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What is the "Agent / Legal Process" on the way to getting "My Musical Produced" ?

Posted by Artist-Cancer · in r/musicalwriting · 4 months ago

Hello ...

I have all the demo songs recorded with FULL vocals and instruments. I have 160-pages of my libretto complete.

My musical (in my opinion) is ready to be workshopped and optioned. I am aiming for Broadway.

(Yes, yes, years of workshopping, editing, and dramaturgy ahead, I know this!)

I have no collaborators, and I wrote all the words and music myself (no other authors).

I also have not much extra funds to expend (I'm not wasting money paying for services I don't need) (thus the next step is getting a producer) (as the next major steps usually cost tens of thousands of US dollars to a million US dollars ... such as: table reads, workshopping, small development crew for editing/dramaturgy).

What is the realistic and complete process I need to go through?

(I'm pretty knowledgable, but I want to make sure I go the correct path.)

What is MANDATORY? What is optional? What is recommended? In what order?

Entertainment agent?

Entertainment lawyer?

US Copyright Office?

When do I contact a Broadway Producer?

Do I get an agent first, do I need an agent or a lawyer or both, etc. etc.

...

Can someone please list what is the realistic and complete process I need to go through, on my way to getting a LEAD PRODUCER?

What is MANDATORY? What is optional? What is recommended? In what ways do I need to protect myself and my work? In what order?

THANKS!!!

=====

I'm already doing this ...

  • In contact with a 14-time Tony winning producer (very early talks).
  • Entering big BWAY contests (which if won, also gets attention of Producers).
  • (BWAY contests if won, will provide "help" funds, 1-night concert, media attention, producer contacts)
  • Social Media (keeping it basic, as yes, it is a waste of time for most purposes).
  • Playing songs for BWAY / Theatre actors / singers (professionals who work and have educated taste / opinion) and general small audiences for feedback, which has been extremely positive.
  • Having several Theatre Professionals (my pro colleagues) read / listen to my entire musical and give feedback / critiques.

I know if I win one or more of the major BWAY contests (results 5-12 months away), then the doors blow wide open.

I'm just entering early talks with a BWAY producer now, no contracts or anything yet, and I am wondering if I need a lawyer / agent / anything else now ... or if I can wait until the talks "get serious" and he wants to "make a deal." (Early talks are just that, early ... nothing serious yet, just potential.)

=====

To answer some comments:

  1. Early talks with producer are early. Just showing interest, nothing serious yet. I met them years ago, and they said to contact them again when I got more ready. Now I have more ready, so we're in very early talks again. If that falls through, I am wondering when to contact the next producer.

  2. Yes, I have friends, colleagues, etc. in theatre and BWAY, but not all of them have the answers. Just bits of info. Sometimes a BWAY actor is just a BWAY actor, not the BWAY wiki. A connection to a producer just means I met them professionally and we talked a few hours, and yes that's a great start, but they meet tons of people, it's not like we're besties. And it's not like I can ask some of these BWAY people a million questions ... they don't have all the answers anyway, and a producer doesn't want to waste his time spelling everything out until he needs to.

  3. I already spent a ton of money and my entire life savings. It ain't cheap writing a musical and recording full demos. I already paid for tons of equipment, instruments, software, staff, and singers over 20 years to get where I am (writing / recording demos for several musicals) to finally get 1 single musical that is "ready" for the "next step". ie ... I already spent 20 years and my entire life savings. (FYI ... the average musical can take 10+ years to write, develop, and produce.)

  4. I don't consider collaborators burdens ... I LOVE TO COLLAB. However, the reality is ... most collabs fall apart, 1 collaborator often doesn't finish or isn't as talented or has personality problems or just has life problems and thus the whole project falls apart incomplete. Some collabs just talk, talk, talk and also never finish. (Just look at how many "rock bands" fall apart.) ... I learned all of this the hard way. My mindset is about writing a musical and finishing it and getting it made -- not just talking about it endlessly. So, I went SOLO, so the project would get finished. ... Too many "talkers" not enough "walkers" ... and also the reality is too many people have mental health issues that prevent them from being stable for YEARS at a time ... again ... your average musical takes 10 YEARS ... meaning if you collab, it is for 10 YEARS and that other person(s) better be 100% rock solid or you're throwing years away! Musicals deal with artists, and artists are notorious for not being 100% mentally stable ... I've seen too much first-hand. Say what you will about "mental health" and artists -- facts are facts, and tell me who you would spend 10 years with rock solid.

  5. Not every producer is a DEVELOPMENT PRODUCER ... as in the person who will get you money and time and people and resources to HELP DEVELOP your musical from the EARLY INFANT STAGES. This is VERY RARE. So I developed the musical myself -- PAYING FOR IT MYSELF -- trust me, I spent TONS of MONEY (and MANY YEARS) on my own musical.

  6. Too many people "have a musical" and it is just a "couple demo songs and some ideas" and then they want a DEVELOPMENT PRODUCER to come in and fund their completion over the next 10 years, if not hire people to finish it for them. That usually doesn't work today ... so I simply did it all myself, and wrote (and paid for) a very complete libretto and full album of songs.

  7. I brought my musical to the step where I feel now a producer may be inclined to start spending their own money for readings, workshops, dramaturgy, final development.

  8. I also brought my musical to the step where it can be entered into major contests and workshopped by theatre companies specializing in development.

  9. I'm just trying to get all the info on the process and steps and the order that I can ... yes I know some of it, yes I am doing some of it ... and yes, I am asking for advice to fill in any gaps of my knowledge or gaps in my process.

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poetic___justice · 4 months ago

Frankly, it sounds like you've put the horse before the cart. And with 45 songs, that's a really big horse!

You say you have no collaborators. How do you know if the 45 songs or the 160 pages of material are any good? Long before contacting a producer, you need to test the product. I can tell you right now, 45 songs is waaaaaaaay too many songs. It's just not within human dimensions for a night of theater!

Musicals aren't written. They're developed and rewritten and re-worked and rewritten . . . so you will need collaborators! Readings, sing-throughs, workshops -- these all require collaboration. It's through this process that your work becomes stage-worthy and also establishes itself as a possible production for, say a community theater or a regional theater. Unless you have a very rich uncle, that's the only road to Broadway. Someone has to see it as a viable product.

I always say -- you finished writing your musical, so now you can get started!

You have songs and scenes, but so what? A beautiful song, sung in the wrong place, will be an unwelcomed intrusion. A big flashy dance number may seem like a good idea on paper, but on stage, it may become an anchor, weighing down the momentum of the plot. You may have very well-written, funny scenes that prove to be too long -- -- or that fail to get laughs -- or that just don't play.

These are the sorts of things you can't know until you actually start turning your recipe into food that can be served. I'd say, don't worry about finding a producer. Producers will come find you when they see a great product. Focus on the product.

4 upvotes on reddit
Author_Noelle_A · 4 months ago

Even without ADD, the thought of 45 songs in one production is exhausting. Hamilton has 45 songs, and—speaking as a fan—it’s exhausting. To make it work, a lot of the songs flow together. LMM also got exceptionally lucky, even in the world of musicals, and I suspect OP is hoping to be an exception among the exceptions, even though OP sees other people being involved as a burden. The cart is so far ahead of the horse that the horse hasn’t even been conceived yet.

2 upvotes on reddit
Unlikely-Aside-5888 · 4 months ago

I don't think OP is saying there are 45 songs in the show - I read it as they have written 45 songs in general. But I think your point absolutely stands.

2 upvotes on reddit
poetic___justice · 4 months ago

Oh, ok. Well, OP wrote, "I have 45 songs recorded with FULL vocals and instruments." Perhaps I misunderstood what that meant. But yeah, Aint Misbehavin' has about 30 songs -- and it's a bookless musical revue!

The trend these days is to have very few songs that can be endlessly reprised and repeated -- so that the few key themes stick in the listeners' heads. Disney is down to 4 or 5 songs per musical!

I would think that, for most modern musicals, in this age of attention deficit disorder as the norm, 10 to 20 numbers would do -- because there is also going to be overtures, entr'acts, dance numbers, musical sequences, scene change interludes and so forth. Anything more than 20 songs and you start to get diminishing results. The ear can only take in but so much at one sitting.

4 upvotes on reddit
Unlikely-Aside-5888 · 4 months ago

Have you done a table read yet? That’s usually beneficial before a professional workshop. 

Building up to get an agent/producer is a long process. Put yourself out there, but be patient. There will be many a rewrite and rework in between.

Starting the next script is always an option as well. 

2 upvotes on reddit
Unlikely-Aside-5888 · 4 months ago

Resources:

https://www.tiktok.com/@shenycarts/video/7174186979062451498

https://www.musicalwriters.com/getting-musicals-produced/beth-blickers-on-how-to-find-a-literary-agent/

3 upvotes on reddit
EmmyPax · 4 months ago

WOW - this was fascinating for how different it is from other areas in the arts. I'm agented as a novelist, and the idea of WAITING to get an agent is a really bad one in book land. But, all the more reason why industry specific information is so valuable. Thank you for this!

2 upvotes on reddit
Al_Trigo · 4 months ago

You don’t need an agent unless you have any upcoming deals or contracts you need to sign. Agents only sign up writers who are bringing in money.

Your work is automatically protected nowadays, as you have a digital record of when you saved the file etc.

You don’t need a lawyer but you can join a writers’ union and they can usually provide legal advice when needed.

You need to get your work noticed by producers. There are lots of ways you can do this:

  • Emailing your work to producers (terrible idea, only works once in a blue moon)
  • Entering competitions (works better, but your writing has to be at a very high industry standard)
  • Taking part in showcases (you have to pitch your work to showcase producers)
  • Producing a short run of your show in a festival (really great if you have the money… otherwise you need friends who will perform for you for free)
  • Creating a social media presence for yourself (very hard work, kind of mandatory, very low returns, soul-sucking… but costs nothing)
  • Open mic nights (can be fun, community building, you’ll make friends)

Wishing you the best of luck!

3 upvotes on reddit
Artist-Cancer · OP · 4 months ago

I'm already doing most of this ...

  • In contact with a 14-time Tony winning producer (very early talks)
  • Entering big BWAY contests (which if won, also gets attention of Producers)
  • (BWAY contests if won, will provide funds, 1-night concert, media attention, producer contacts)
  • Social Media (keeping it basic, as yes, it is a waste of time for most)
  • Playing songs for BWAY / Theatre actors / singers (professionals who work and have educated taste / opinion) and general small audiences for feedback, which has been extremely positive.

I know if I win one or more of the major BWAY contests (results 5-12 months away), then the doors blow wide open.

I'm just entering early talks with a BWAY producer now, no contracts or anything yet, and I am wondering if I need a lawyer / agent / anything else now ... or if I can wait until the talks "get serious" and he wants to "make a deal."

-2 upvotes on reddit
Unlikely-Aside-5888 · 4 months ago

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused.

  1. If you're in contact with a producer, why did you ask us "When do I contact a Broadway producer?"
  2. If you have connections to a producer you should know a bit about what it takes to get to Broadway and that no two paths are the same. You can ask them about all of this and they are happy to help you (as well as people on this sub, who have given you a lot of advice in the past). You asked for advice here but are answering your own questions. If it's unhelpful, that is super valid, but ask the industry pros you're connected to.
  3. Putting on a show is going to cost money. Period. It sucks and it's not right, but that's how it is. Like any small business, you have to invest in it if you want to have a chance to see it grow. Many, many up-and-comers have done this. If you're in talks with a producer who will pay for all of it, great, but I'm not sure what you mean by "wasting money paying for services I don't need". What exactly are you talking about?
  4. Legal advice = go to the Dramatists Guild (if you're in the US). If you're not a member, join now so that people (including producers) will take you seriously. That will cost money too by the way.
  5. You're just in talks. Don't assume that it'll get serious. Has this person seen your work? Do they know/care about your credentials? Think of it like a job interview - it's not over until it's over. Same thing with these opportunities you're applying to. You can't bank on that because they are super competitive. Not saying it won't happen, but don't use them as your crutch.

Also, I don't know if you intended it like this, but please don't refer to collaborators as "burdens". That is super disrespectful and nobody will want to work with you if that's your attitude. And if you're fine with that, this might not be the correct field for you. I normally don't get sassy on Reddit but take it as a serious consideration because that is the backbone of writing musicals.

5 upvotes on reddit
drewduboff · 4 months ago

Ultimately, you need to get the work on its feet with top-tier talent to get recognized by producers. I attended a concert reading (next to no book, more so songs) of a musical by a composer acquaintance (former student of my voice teacher; coincidentally the son of my high school music theory teacher) last year. It was at the Cutting Room in NYC and featured some strong talent (my voice teacher also attended a workshop the year before that had more book scenes) From The Cutting Room, they got a producer interested -- which was the main purpose. This year, they did another workshop/reading, with even more top-tier talent -- Tony Yazbeck, Robert Cuccioli, Kate Rockwell. That was very recent and it sold out. They're on a multi-year track of getting their musical recognized at higher and higher thresholds. But, it starts with you being your own advocate for your show and getting it on its feet one way or the other the way you intend so others can latch on to your vision.

Other things to do -- get a director on board to help shape the show. They know producers and they know theatres, so you can build up a resume of productions critics and producers can go to. Submit to festivals (not contests) where others produce it for you so you can gain more developmental experience. It's not enough for your Broadway friends to listen to your material. They need to sing it! They need to share on social media, get fans excited, etc. Capable performers always want new material that fits them like a glove and they'll help you learn more about the voices that can sing the material. Audra McDonald recording How Glory Goes from Guettel's Floyd Collins gave that show a lot of awareness. You also haven't mentioned yet, but you should have a website or some way to digitally display your demos, synopsis, etc. You mention potential talks with a big-time producer -- lesser known ones hungry for a win might be a more likely advocate for your show and willing to take an unknown writer on. You can also start making connections with casting directors to assist you in realizing your work.

Addressing the elephant in the room -- 45 songs is too many. A show that runs 3 hours is a major no-no. After intermission, strong chance of paying overtime to musicians. You're not Les Mis...yet...you can't treat yourself like you are (and Hamilton is sung-through and Lin-Manuel Miranda was already a Broadway talent before this). No producer will take on an unknown writer who intends to blow the budget before previews are done. YOU need to cut your show down -- don't wait for others to because they'll pass on the long version and never get to see what it could be. That's why your next step should be getting a director on board to collaborate with you in guiding the work toward what it could be.

2 upvotes on reddit
Pal47onwards · 1 month ago

Why not get the songs on Youtube in the sequence they would appear in the musical and see what response you get ?

1 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicalwriting • [7]

Summarize

Writing a musical (but I'm stuck and don't know what to do first)

Posted by Informal_Cupcake_675 · in r/musicalwriting · 3 months ago

Hey, I'm writing a musical of my own, a concept musical if you will, and I have a plot but I don't know what to start with first. I typically start off with writing the music, but now I'm just stumped. What should I do?

5 upvotes on reddit
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YellowMugAndrew · 3 months ago

Stephen Schwartz's Seven Questions are a good way of approaching the basics.

  1. What is it about? What are the themes of the show? What does your story say about the world?
  2. Why should the audience care? Why is this an important story to tell?
  3. Who should you root for? Who is the 'Hero?'
  4. What do they want? If you know what a character wants, clearly enough, you're bound to start rooting for them.
  5. What is keeping them from getting it? What is the obstacle that they have to overcome, in the plot?
  6. Why do they want it? It's important to have a specific 'what' that the character wants, but also a deeper 'why'.
  7. "When do I get to go home?" - What is the natural end to the story? Does the hero get what they want? Does the hero get what they deserve? Does the hero change so much that what they want changes too?

This is just a starting list of questions, but it really does get to the heart of writing stories. And it's this kind of clarity that musicals really thrive on. The answers to these questions will start to land song ideas into your lap

10 upvotes on reddit
YellowMugAndrew · 3 months ago

I mostly typed this out because I was getting tired of going back to watch the instagram reel where I found this, but here it is: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKueggiyJsB/

1 upvotes on reddit
TSAYO · 3 months ago

Try looking through your plot, listing out the elements, and figuring out where your songs would fit. Figure out what kinds of feelings those songs illicit and what they serve to the plot. That should help you to get a general vibe as to what your song might sound like. From there, maybe do a scene breakdown, that tells you what things would actually be in each scene, and that should help with actually writing the book. I’m sure from there you’ll have a strong enough skeletal system to work out what needs done. If you play piano I’d recommend messing around there just to see what kinds of sounds you like for certain feelings, maybe. Watch plenty of videos, don’t be afraid to use your resources (good you’re already here lol). Take my advice with a grain of salt, I’m just a beginner here.

3 upvotes on reddit
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TrippyRyXO · 3 months ago

Please for the love of god whatever you do just don’t use AI.

5 upvotes on reddit
Author_Noelle_A · 3 months ago

THIS TIMES INFINITY.

0 upvotes on reddit
Environmental_Pea369 · 3 months ago

There is nothing wrong with using AI. I'm sure non of us expects it to produce a good play with no effort

0 upvotes on reddit
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TrippyRyXO · 3 months ago

There is so much wrong with AI that I can’t even begin to get into it without getting upset. Would you be okay with millions of people using your work without payment, recognition, and to do your job worse than you. Do not use AI for creative endeavors, period.

1 upvotes on reddit
Wonderful_Figure7836 · 3 months ago

Get a white board. Make into sections

TO DO IN PROGRESS COMPLETED

Then a smaller one

TODAY:

TO DO COMPLETED

2 upvotes on reddit
RedditDedditReddmptn · 3 months ago

Writing a musical is like filling out a crossword puzzle. It doesn't necessarily matter which part you fill out first because it'll lead you to another part. And just like a crossword puzzle, if your first answer is wrong, that will influence more parts of it to be wrong until you start figuring out more and more right answers. As for me (I've written 8 musicals, 2 of them played Off-Broadway), I think a great place to start is not just your plot but an outline. What happens in each scene? What song happens in that scene and what is the general vibe of it? You don't want four ballads in a row, but four patter songs or uptempos in a row can get old too. Find preexisting musicals kind of like the one you want to write and figure out their structure. A good rule of thumb is to have 7-10 scenes in Act One, 5-7 in Act Two. Typically the song in each scene should either be the one that contains the most potent emotional moment in the scene (joy, anger, argument, etc.) or the most important information in the scene (who a character is, what they want, how they attempt to get it, etc). In as many songs as possible, try to either move the plot along (take us from point A to point B) or explain something that is important for the audience to know. Read Jack Viertel's book The Secret Life of the American Musical (or listen to the audiobook, which I prefer), that will give you a great idea of how to pick which song goes where. Another way to start would be writing songs for the most important moments in your show. That can help you figure out what tone and style you're going for (or *not* going for). And finally, do not attempt to reinvent the wheel. Writing a great musical is hard enough already, but doing something that has never been done before is about as likely as an archer firing an arrow and splitting the one that's already stuck in the bullseye; you don't yet have the experience to do it with expertise, and you're almost definitely not gonna do it with luck. Stick to established structures that have worked before and trust that you can pour your own unique work into them. Good luck to you.

2 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicalwriting • [8]

Summarize

I've written a show. Now what?

Posted by thenew110 · in r/musicalwriting · 4 months ago

This past weekend I completed a draft of a short (30 page) musical I am very pleased with!

Now... I have no idea what to do next. Part of my problem is I'm not really a musician. I wrote all of it, including book, lyrics, and melodies for the songs. I recorded the melodies, but I do not have the skills to properly perform them or arrange accompaniments to make demos.

Even if I did have demos... then I would have a script and demos and still not sure be what to do next. It is such a basic question I almost feel silly asking it, but what do you do with a musical after you've written it?

8 upvotes on reddit
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TrippyRyXO · 4 months ago

The best advice is to build yourself a team of a few dedicated collaborators who share your passion for the project. Now that you’ve poured your all into this draft, you have thoroughly accquainted yourself with the material and your story and slowly your blind spots will start to become more and more apparent. Having collaborators, in this case probably best to start with a composer, is going to get eyes on your work and bring out points and things that you never would have thought twice about, but could likely be improved upon through collaborative work.

Once you’ve assembled a team (can literally be one or two other people) then you can all put your heads (and time) together to make something happen with the piece. Submit to festivals, organize a reading with local performers, shop it around to schools and community theatres. Get people who do shows, on and off stage, to look at and listen to your show. Thats the tried and true way to make headway.

This community is a great place to start when looking for collaborators (a process we are working to formalize further), so have at it and get to work! It truly is never finished, even once its premiered.

6 upvotes on reddit
thenew110 · OP · 4 months ago

Thank you! Really appreciate the detailed answer. What do you think is the best strat to find a collaborator on here?

3 upvotes on reddit
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TrippyRyXO · 4 months ago

I would start in the discord! Not the most active, but there’s plenty of cool folks in there to chat with and shoot ideas around with.

https://discord.gg/htB9Q2Ze

3 upvotes on reddit
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earbox · 4 months ago

Firstly: big ups on finishing a show!

The main issue you're going to have is that there's not much that can be done with a musical that's longer than 10-15 minutes (suitable for ten-minute play festivals) but shorter than 80-90 minutes (long enough to be produced on its own). You might want to think about writing companion pieces that use the same/similar forces and turning them into a program of one-acts.

4 upvotes on reddit
thenew110 · OP · 4 months ago

Yeah... tbh I see it as a full one act and was thinking of this as my pilot mini-version of it that could be further developed. Although weirdly i do have another show mostly written around the same length that's very thematically compatible so you could put them together... great thoughts, ty!

2 upvotes on reddit
VariousAmoeba4106 · 4 months ago

Can you elaborate on this please?

1 upvotes on reddit
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earbox · 4 months ago

on which part?

1 upvotes on reddit
AmberAlchemistAlt · 4 months ago

Hey! I'm in a similar boat as you (well, I'm also a musician so I do have demos and full songs.) So I can't offer you too much advice but I'm very interested in answers.

Anyway first big question is "what do YOU want from your show?" Staged production? Recording? Someone to pay you for it? What in your mind's eye is the end of the line for your work? Because it could very well be that with your script done you're simply ready to move on to the next project and shelve this one.

For me it took a long time to decide on the answer to that question, but considering everything in my life and work together, I decided I'd give it a table read with an audience and probably shelve it after that. I strongly believe that theatre must be performed, and must be seen and heard. It doesn't really "exist" as theatre until that happens, as our art form is a means of expressing ideas from creator to audience. The expression is the end. You may feel differently!

3 upvotes on reddit
thenew110 · OP · 4 months ago

I’d love to find a way to share it with people. I was thinking a concept album could be cool? But of course that requires musicians. Have you ever recorded/shared the work you did a read of?

1 upvotes on reddit
AmberAlchemistAlt · 4 months ago

Yeah the reading is still to come in a couple months but I have recordings of all the completed songs.

If you want to start by sharing, you could start by just sending your script around, or even posting it here as I see some people do. You could even post a video of yourself (and some friends) reading the script and you singing some of the melodies to Youtube or something.

2 upvotes on reddit
TherianSilverOnPawzz · 14 days ago

if you can't get anyone to help you, make tracks online with things like garage band, I dunno.

1 upvotes on reddit
fervidasaflame · 4 months ago

I’d be happy to work with you to get this project finished—writing out sheet music, composing accompaniment parts, preparing demo tracks, or whatever might be helpful. I just graduated with my bachelor’s degree in music composition and I am experienced with musical theatre writing (including but not limited to lyric/text-setting, vocal arrangement, writing accompaniments, and orchestration). Feel free to DM me and we can discuss the project, budget, timeline, etc.

1 upvotes on reddit
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r/Theatre • [9]

Summarize

DISCUSSION: Why do musicals work better (for the audience) than the adapted literature said musicals were created from?

Posted by ch_arlatte · in r/Theatre · 3 years ago

I'm currently doing a research paper, and my focus is on musicals that have been adapted from pre-existing literature (Phantom of The Opera, Cats, Les Mis, Matilda, Hamilton etc.) and wanted to gain insight on why people may prefer the musical version over the literature they came from (books, fiction/non-fiction mainly). Everyone has differing opinions and thoughts, and I would love to hear what people think. For me, personally, I would say it's a lot more engaging, and even though I do enjoy reading, it feels easier to connect to the characters by seeing someone actually live on stage as the character.

If you disagree that the musical version doesn't work better, feel free to share why too!

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TheCityThatCriedWolf · 3 years ago

I mean musicals have the benefit of spectacle, of (hopefully) catchy songs, of (again, hopefully) thrilling live performances. It's hard for any source material to compare. At the same time, novels have the benefit or length and of really staying with the characters. You used Les Miz as an example, which I find a fascinating contrast because I think both the musical and the source material are frankly spectacular but in extremely different ways. The book is a labyrinth of characters and intrigue and it frankly takes a while to get going but once you're hooked, buckle up.

I will say your question ignores many of the UNSUCCESSFUL literary adaptations: "Pipe Dream", "Breakfast at Tiffany's", or "Carrie". It's easy to make generalizations when you're only looking at the successes.

4 upvotes on reddit
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corneliamu · 3 years ago

I fundamentally disagree with the premise. The fact that musicals are based on literary classics is irrelevant. The audience is responding to performance. If you want a direct comparison, have an audience sit read the libretto or script! It’s not what you do, it’s the way you do it, imo.

14 upvotes on reddit
ch_arlatte · OP · 3 years ago

I totally agree! Sadly, my mentor guiding me for this project says that I have to compare the original story with the musical adaptation… but yeah I think letting the audience read the script will give better insight

1 upvotes on reddit
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EddieRyanDC · 3 years ago

Actually, they don’t. The opposite is true. What you are doing here is cherry-picking the rare exceptions and declaring they are typical. But if you were to list all the musicalizations that have been done on a literary property, you would find that the vast majority of them failed and have been forgotten. Very few are successful, and even fewer endure as literature in their own right.

This is known as Survivorship Bias - only looking at the successful examples and ignoring or forgetting about the failures. For example, when a Tony winner clutches their statue and emotionally proclaims “This proves that dreams can come true if you never give up!”, they are basing that only on their experience of winning and not taking into account the thousands of young actors who study and get degrees and keep auditioning, but never get jobs and have to leave the business to survive or feed their families.

If you are really interested in getting the answer to this question, you would need to find a source that could tell you, say, every musical that opened in New York in last 50 years, what was the source material, and then summarize the success of the source material vs. the musical.

6 upvotes on reddit
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alaskawolfjoe · 3 years ago

I think most people who see musicals do not know the original work.

3 upvotes on reddit
[deleted] · 3 years ago

"Let's just say it's a Saturday night and you want to go out on the town;

Got a lady to flatter who might give it up if you don't let her down;

You could go see a tragedy...but that wouldn't be very fun.

Or a play from Greek mythology...see a mother have sex with her son. Blech!

You could go see a drama...with all that trauma and pain;

Or something more relaxing, and less taxing, on the brain.

Go. See. A. Musical!"

-Something Rotten

3 upvotes on reddit
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r/musicals • [10]

Summarize

Which musical would you say most affected how musicals are made today, be it the style of storytelling, the songs, or anything else?

Posted by AngryMoose125 · in r/musicals · 3 years ago

In my opinion, it’s RENT- a musical that completely and totally redefined how a musical on Broadway can sound and the type of stories told. It is a (rare at the time) musical from the perspective of the common person- poor, struggling to get by.

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poblob14 · 3 years ago

Most obviously, Oklahoma! for integrating the songs and the story.

More recently, Hair for using the rock idiom, Jesus Christ Superstar for the through-composed style, and In The Heights for Latin and rap music.

33 upvotes on reddit
Saxobeat28 · 3 years ago

I feel like this is a loaded question that could honestly even be broken down by genres. While I’m the biggest RENThead, I could go on about various shows that influenced RENT and Jonathan Larson. I mean obviously there’s a show every few years that stands out or rocks the boat, but still a question with many, many answers

8 upvotes on reddit
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waterteawater · 3 years ago

I would say Rent and a more contemporary one would be Hamilton.

9 upvotes on reddit
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AngryMoose125 · OP · 3 years ago

I can definitely see Hamilton being up there- much like Rent it has a genre of music that most people had yet to associate with musicals- with Rent it was generally modern styles of music and with Hamilton it was rap which quite honestly I never thought I’d see in a musical

4 upvotes on reddit
AdamInJP · 3 years ago

Show Boat.

9 upvotes on reddit
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linzzzzi · 3 years ago

Oklahoma, Hair and JCS for rock music, Company and Chorus Line for concept musicals, whichever 1980s British megamusical came first, Rent. And nobody likes this answer including me but Mamma Mia and Jersey Boys opened the floodgates to the million jukebox and bio musicals we see now.

16 upvotes on reddit
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Related

What inspired Jorge Rivera-Herrans to create EPIC: The Musical

behind the scenes of EPIC: The Musical

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influences on modern musicals

AI Answer

🤖

how musicals are developed

Key Considerations in Developing a Musical:

  1. Concept and Story Development:

    • Start with a strong concept or story idea. This could be an original story, an adaptation of a book, film, or historical event.
    • Create a detailed outline that includes character arcs, major plot points, and themes.
  2. Writing the Score:

    • Collaborate with composers and lyricists to create songs that enhance the narrative and develop characters.
    • Songs should reflect the emotional journey of the characters and advance the plot.
  3. Book Development:

    • The book (script) is crucial for dialogue and stage directions. It should seamlessly integrate with the music.
    • Work on character development and ensure that the dialogue feels natural and engaging.
  4. Workshops and Readings:

    • Conduct workshops and staged readings to test the material with actors and audiences. This helps identify strengths and weaknesses.
    • Gather feedback to refine the script, score, and overall production.
  5. Casting and Rehearsals:

    • Once the script and score are finalized, cast actors who can bring the characters to life.
    • Rehearsals are essential for integrating music, choreography, and staging.
  6. Production Elements:

    • Collaborate with designers for set, costumes, lighting, and sound to create the visual and auditory experience.
    • Consider the overall aesthetic and how it complements the story.
  7. Previews and Adjustments:

    • Before the official opening, preview performances allow for final adjustments based on audience reactions.
    • Be open to making changes to improve pacing, clarity, and engagement.

Takeaway: Developing a musical is a collaborative and iterative process that requires creativity, teamwork, and flexibility. Engaging with audiences early through workshops and previews can significantly enhance the final product. If you're interested in writing a musical, consider starting with a strong concept and building a team of talented collaborators.

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