Belly's Relationships with Conrad and Jeremiah
A significant aspect of the series revolves around Belly's relationships with Conrad and Jeremiah. The dynamics are complex, as Belly navigates her feelings for both brothers. In one discussion, it was noted that Belly blames Conrad for prom night because they were in an actual relationship, whereas her connection with Jeremiah during the Deb Ball was less formal [1:1]. Moreover, Belly's tendency to judge Conrad more harshly than others is attributed to her deep feelings for him
[1:4].
Character Development and Self-Reflection
Belly's journey is also about self-discovery and growth. Her actions often reflect her teenage self-centeredness, which is a part of her coming-of-age story [1:2]. A deeper analysis suggests that her love for Conrad symbolizes a trait she must accept to truly love herself
[3:1]. This internal struggle is evident in how she suppresses her true feelings when with Jeremiah, indicating unresolved emotions towards Conrad
[2:1].
Narrative and Perception of Characters
The show's narrative has led to varied perceptions of Belly's character. Some viewers find the back-and-forth between Belly, Conrad, and Jeremiah frustrating, feeling that Belly's actions lack realism [5:2]. Others argue that the writing should have provided more nuance to Belly's character, rather than leaving her real feelings ambiguous to maintain the Team Conrad/Team Jeremiah dynamic
[5:3]. Jenny Han, the author, acknowledges that fans can be hard on female characters, but some believe this criticism stems from the way Belly was written
[5:5].
Sibling Rivalry and Family Dynamics
The sibling rivalry between Conrad and Jeremiah adds another layer to the story. Discussions highlight how Conrad's actions, such as taking back his feelings for Belly, are perceived as self-serving rather than protective of Jeremiah [4:4]. The brotherhood appears one-sided, with Conrad often dismissing Jeremiah's struggles while focusing on his own desires
[4:6]. This dynamic is further complicated by the family's awareness and involvement in the relationships
[4:10].
Audience Reactions and Gender Dynamics
Audience reactions to the show reveal underlying gender dynamics. Some viewers argue that if the roles were reversed, with a male character bouncing between sisters, the show would face more backlash [5:10]. While supporting women and acknowledging societal double standards, it's important to hold characters accountable for their actions regardless of gender
[5:12].
I watched The summer I turned pretty without any prior knowledge of how popular the show is (I was probably living under a rock). Firstly, I am an adult in my 30's and I am amazed at the impact this 'coming-of-age' story has had on me. I am eagerly counting the days until season 3 is released. I find myself deeply invested in the show, reading people's opinions on Conrad, Belly and Jeremiah, and doing my own character analysis.
Among many other points, I couldn't help but draw this parallel in a similar situation that Conrad and Jeremiah were individually involved in.
During the deb ball, Jeremiah first found out about Susannah's cancer and he was so devastated that he not remember that he had a dance performance with Belly. Belly was extremely nervous, comparing it to the dream of being naked in a room full of people. If Conrad hadn't stepped in, Belly definitely wouldn't have had a great memory of the deb ball.
Prom night : Conrad, the way he processes grief and anxiety, couldn't pretend to be happy and be there for Belly during one of the best events of her school life. Given the panic attack episodes Conrad occasionally had, it is most likely that he was on the brink of having one and so stormed out of the room to avoid making a scene. Belly was quick to react and she was the one that broke things off (not Conrad). Conrad leaving could have been equally embarrassing for her in the prom.
At the time of the each of these individual events, Jere/Belly and Conrad/Belly were definitely in a relationship (for Jere/Belly it was just the beginning).
I don't understand how these two are different and why Belly only chooses to blame Conrad for the prom night.
We should keep in mind that Belly is a teenager, and like most teenagers, she’s very self-centered. She even feels embarrassed multiple times throughout the show when she realizes she makes everything about herself. The show is a coming-of-age story, and her selfishness is part of that journey.
At the Deb Ball, Belly doesn’t blame Jeremiah for leaving because Conrad stepped in, and she had her “Cinderella” moment with him. Why would she blame Jeremiah when everything worked out in her favor?
At prom, she was hurt that Conrad was pulling away. She believed it wasn’t just because he was struggling, but also because he had lost interest in her. We can deduce this from her behavior during prom. Conrad told her multiple times that he wanted to go somewhere else to talk, but she’s afraid to leave the dance floor. She likely thought he wanted to find a quiet place to break up with her. Her way of trying to prevent that was by sticking to the original plan for the night.
When he left anyway, that’s when she realized she couldn’t hold on to him, he was leaving her behind. He was breaking up with her by putting distance between them. So in her pov she said out loud what he wouldn’t.
Why does Conrad dance with her instead of looking for his brother 😂🤣 so many things wrong with the script lol 🥴🤷🏻♀️☺️
Hahaha, I get what you mean, but that part felt realistic to me. Jere was only missing for a couple of minutes, that’s not really long enough for people to get up and start looking for someone. Even though Conrad has been parentified to look out for the others, Jere is a teenager over six feet tall, not a 4-foot-tall 10-year-old. People usually don’t worry as much about a tall teenager going missing at a country club as they would about a small child.
Conrad probably felt the need to help Belly right away because she was struggling right in front of him. He had no idea that Jere was bawling his eyes out.😢 If Jere hadn’t come back during the dance, I’m sure Conrad would have gone looking for him.
People might kill me for this but I think Conrad would have picked helping Jere over Belly if he knew Jere was crying.😭
Omg rightttf
Well they aren’t exactly the same. Conrad and Belly were in an actual relationship, boyfriend/girlfriend. Meanwhile she just asks Jere to go with her to Deb ball because she was mad at Conrad and Jere had just confessed to liking her. They weren’t in a relationship.
And to be completely honest, Belly isn’t mad at Jere about the Deb Ball dance because she ultimately got to dance with Conrad which is what she wanted at that time anyways.
Prom however, at this point Belly is seeing Conrad’s grief and him pulling away as a direct reflection of how he feels about her. He doesn’t want to let her in, doesn’t care about their relationship as much. Which is wrong of her but she has too many insecurities to understand the situation for what it was. I wouldn’t say she blames him or gets mad at him, they just break up and she’s devastated/hurt by him.
And also, when Susannah’s cancer came back, remember belly said no one told her how bad it was. For all we know, Conrad could’ve known how bad it was and belly didn’t realize
Conrad told her before prom when they were in the kitchen that his mom's meds were not working and he clearly looked very worried and scared- that should have clued in Belly that something was very wrong. Even at prom, she still knew that Susannah was sick and dying, so her first though when Conrad wanted to go outside and was looking visibly drained and near tears, was maybe it had do with his mom, not that he wanted to break up.
To me, it feels like belly judges Conrad to a higher standard than anyone else around her maybe not her mom because she also judges her mom pretty harshly. And I think it correlates directly to how much she feels for Conrad and her mom.
I think, belly thinks about her relationship with Conrad as a dream even if it came true she is in a feeling that Conrad is not letting her in as much as she wanted. so because of her insecurities she thought he wanted to breakup with her which she didn't realise even after the beach fight because of her constant feeling that Conrad won't love her. Which we all know is not true but apparently she and all people around her think the same. As for the Deb ball she actually thanks jere because she got what she wanted from a long time. And she never takes anything serious about Jeremiah as she doesn't expect much from him both past and present . Even if he did anything wrong he always makes sure that she got what she wants which is assurance that she is loved by him. Conrad is very bad at that assurance thing.
Your post made me think of another similar parallel: Conrad being sad at Prom Belly being sad at Steven's Grad party
Circumstances and situations are different but the core issue is the same: they're both really sad/grieving, having to go to social event they have no desire to be at in order to support someone they care about. Then feeling overwhelmed and having to leave?
Belly essentially went through the exact same thing as Conrad so it's crazy she couldn't give him some grace. Granted, Conrad wasn't able to communicate to Belly why he was feeling this way so that's also partly on him too.
This just confirms, that when Belly's with Conrad, her true feelings come out. When she's with Jeremiah, she's supressing.
okay, this girl knows what's up. very good analysis of explaining what in the hell is happening w Belly! What is going on with herr?? I will now be on the watch everytime Belly is quiet versus talking in her head. A lot of this... happening.
Okay, so we are starting s3e6 with framed narration and the
“Oh my God. I still love you.”
Until proven otherwise …
I had a feeling, which is pure speculation, that Conrad's episode will end with a statement in her voiceover, just like this episode ended with Conrad's 'what have I done'.
It would be kind of neat symmetry, to mark the return to her narration, and to provide a similar cliffhanger to create excitement for us getting in her head again.
Like, imagine if ep 5 is Connie's narration all the way through, then ends similarly with Belly staring at Conrad, or hugging him and saying in voiceover 'Oh my God. I'm still in love with you'.
The squealing would be heard in space.
Yes, definitely. I was fluctuating between both versions… I thought maybe we will get her face when they are hugging? It was conveniently left out in Con‘s version…
This is SUCH a good analysis bravo to the person who made this
According to author Jenny Han, Belly's hesitation before reconciling with Conrad in The Summer I Turned Pretty finale was due to her knowing that a reunion with Conrad would be permanent and could hurt Jeremiah and their family. Han stated that Belly's caution was because with Conrad, "if they go there again, it's for keeps, and you can't take that back, so you really have to be sure".
I’m honestly not sure what to make of this article. What is JH really trying to say here? That once Belly made her choice—after all of 30 seconds—she’s locked in, no turning back? That she can’t change her mind simply because it’s Conrad? That kind of pressure doesn’t just weigh on Belly, it weighs on the relationship itself. It sets them up for conflict before they’ve even had a chance to grow. And it raises a bigger question: if things fall short, if the reality doesn’t match the dream, is she supposed to just endure it because of everything that’s already happened? Also, this isn’t a great message to be putting out.
>wasn't this also the case at the end of Season 2? Jere knew he wouldn't be able to handle the pain if Belly left him for Conrad again and begged her to be sure<
Problem with this is, belly is only 16/17 it's old at this time. Her and Conrad broke up a month ago and she's starting things with Jeremiah too quickly. She's looking for the next quick fix, someone to make her feel wanted. She tried mapping out her and Jeremiah future when they toured Finch: "You and me running around campus together, late night study sessions and pizza".......she's too young to know how her heart is gonna feel when she gets older. An she's always been in denial about her feelings for Conrad. They never had a proper conversation about their feelings. The conversation at the hotel was one side. Conrad spoke the night before and told her not to say anything. The next morning she goes to look for Jeremiah. Even though it's obvious she made up her mind already, they never actually spoke to each other. And Conrad takes back everything he said the next morning. So nothing was really resolved.
That's what Jenny seems to want us to think retroactively and might be true in the books, but that's not what they showed on screen. I think the conversation Belly and Conrad had next to the garbage cans was the closure conversation, and Belly pretty clearly friendzoned Conrad. It was much more closure than Belly and Jere have had at this point after a much more significant relationship; they have never even talked face to face since their wedding day. And she was absolutely clear on Conrad's feelings for her when she chose Jere on the show. Jere says, "He's still in love with you, you have to see that." And the next day. Belly tells Jere he was right about that. She had all the information, she just still chose Jere. Conrad taking it back only confirmed she had made the right choice; it didn't actually affect anything. The way Lola played it, she didn't seem to believe him when he took it back, she was just over his antics.
And while 17 is young, so is 22, so the same argument about not knowing how she will feel still applies. I think one of my main points of contention with the show overall is the idea that you have to give in to whatever fleeting feelings you have, that you have no control over your heart, that signs from the universe mean more than your decisions. In my many years of experience with long-term relationships and marriage, I know that love is not only a feeling but a choice. You have to commit to your partner regardless of whatever nostalgia for past loves or momentary attractions might arise. Those feelings are common if not universal, but you can't dwell on them because they aren't real; the life you build with your partner, the kind of love you have with someone you spend every day with and navigate life with, has to carry more weight. I do think no matter what confusion Belly feels about Conrad, she took it too far with Jere for what she is doing now to ever be right.
Who keeps asking her questiooooonssssssss!!! The less we hear from this woman the better because it's clear she doesn't understand the material and gets confused at each interview.
And they insult us when we say the messaging at the end — that loving Conrad was fundamental to her person like the genetic composition of her hair and eyes — was harmful. It implied that every choice she's made away from Conrad and to leave him behind — including breaking up with him when he treated her badly, or not choosing him because he'd established a pattern of confessing and taking things back — was denying her true nature. Like, this girl will never be at one with herself away from Conrad, so it's better for her to endure whatever comes her way at his hands because she's realized she's not a separate person and cannot be a full human being away from him. Somehow, that's not codependency, but self-awareness and actualization for her.
What the actual fuck.
Oh, that's inspiring! Belly's love for Conrad actually symbolizes a trait that she doesn't like about herself but that she has to accept to be able to love herself. Or it's a Greek tragedy after all, Susannah is the Delphi oracle and Belly's been uselessly running from her prophesized fate since S1. (Disclaimer: just kidding, not delusional.)
>Belly's love for Conrad actually symbolizes a trait that she doesn't like about herself but that she has to accept to be able to love herself.
This is what puzzled me when she made that statement about her hair and eyes, and then Jenny made it obvious that that's exactly what she meant by saying loving Conrad is who Belly is at her core. Belly's inner monologue about how her younger self was comfortable with this truth and she'd spent so long disgusted by this idea and even came to Paris to run away from it only to realize it was okay and actually nothing to be ashamed or sorry for left me aghast tbh with you.
Jenny doubling down got me clutching my pearls. Why would any woman say that about another woman and act like it's a positive thing????
Apparently every time she picked someone else, Belly was self-hating and denying the person that was cast in stone when she was born with the loving Conrad gene.
Mind you, previous seasons showed Belly started liking Conrad when she was in the double digits in age. Season 3 suddenly told us she'd liked and been in love with him from as far back as when she was 4.
I’m pretty done with JH, the finale, and her interviews. I think she’s contradicted herself too often this season, let alone between and during previous seasons to be taken seriously or at her word again. What she wants to sound profound comes across as word salad. Partly because she’s needed to speak far too often to try and explain or correct ‘misinterpretation’ when the show’s writing, direction or music choices haven’t told the story as they should have and was intended. I’ve never encountered a show/movie needing so much external material in order to supposedly understand it properly - if you need a manual or handholding there’s been a significant failure along the way. Anyway, she probably means the decision holds significant weight. It will rupture relationships again that have only just been bandaided back together without full closure/reflection/accountability or discussion. Nobody is fully healed, and they need to be serious and prepared for the discomfort and fallout as everyone comes to terms with it. This sounds mature. The problem is that what she’s saying to Conrad, how she’s behaving, what she’s thinking instead, and the ‘signs from the universe/childhood’ she’s using to rationalise her choices are all extremely contradictory and juvenile. The only thing I can take out of the finale for Belly is that she hasn’t grown or changed in any meaningful way she’s simply run away from her mess and problems, that she continues to be afraid to break away from the past, and that absolutely nothing she thinks, says or does can be trusted. For now, for the medium term and certainly not forever. This is terrible writing of the main female character in 2025 around whom the story is supposed to revolve. And I don’t care about her or Conrad as a result anymore. They can and will do whatever they like, I’m completely uninterested in their story. I enjoyed the development of the new core four characters and stories and will watch the movie for them only.
And any decision or message that indicates that a 22 year old whose core personality trait is indecision (and who managed to only be single for about 6 months in the last 6 years since she was 16) can’t or won’t change her mind in future is utterly preposterous.
>What she wants to sound profound comes across as word salad
This!! And also ends up becoming more and more misogynistic.
>the decision holds significant weight. It will rupture relationships again that have only just been bandaided back together without full closure/reflection/accountability or discussion
That's true. But it's the "for keeps" that's raising my eyebrow. So much external doubt and resistance to this reawakened dynamic is going to put pressure on it. It's going to make them stick together even when they shouldn't just to validate their choices. Just like how Belly and Jeremiah cling closer together when their family was against them. And w know how that ended. But do Belly and Conrad have the awareness and courage to walk away when things get rough? To hear Belly say it, walking away would be rejecting a part of her genetic makeup, so she won't.
>This is terrible writing of the main female character in 2025 around whom the story is supposed to revolve.
!!!!! Jenny Han said FUCK BELLY
Yes to the external doubt and resistance and resultant pressure causing isolation and fracture just like Jelly. I think the difference will be that the families are aware that Bonrad is likely happening, and all of them will still be cognisant of how their reaction and futile attempts to stop the wedding caused significant damage (even if the wedding ultimately didn’t go ahead). So I don’t expect the reactions to be the same, and even after everything that’s pissed me off this week, I hope that the movie will delve into the dynamics in an adult way where the relationship and wedding is accepted but that understanding there will be difficulties and managing it respectfully is expected and important. As Chris and Lola said in an interview, there’s so much to be addressed with Jeremiah, Steven, Taylor etc. If JH is waiting till ‘they’re closer to being adults’ whatever the fuck that means (Gavin is 26 and Chris 27) then she can remove the YA fantasy filter and be a bit realer and still have her endgame. But the message must always, always still be that you can change your mind. And ‘knowing your heart’ and 8 or 10 means fuck all. She changed her mind about wanting to travel because she experienced more of life - normal, natural and should be encouraged. Same goes for boys, childhood crushes and relationships and everything else in life because being adaptable is such a key life skill, and what JH seems to want Belly to settle for is life limiting inflexibility.
In terms of the male centredness and misogyny that seems to kind of permeate some of these efforts to ‘explain’ I don’t think it’s intentional and I wonder if JH even realises that’s what’s happening. I think she’s so hellbent in explaining and forcing understanding of the inexplicable that she talks herself into a corner. I also have to say that whatever the structure of the writers room, and who takes ultimate responsibility for the screen play etc, the writing has been really really bad at times. The whole Bonrad in Paris was seriously cringe. It could have been much better, gotten the message across about her love, her doubts and concerns, them opening up, having real conversations etc etc which meant that whether we liked it or not we could accept it. Which I just don’t. But also, I just don’t care now.
I think it’s meant as this is the do or die because of the mess. But you’re right, it comes across the way you’ve described because Jenny’s ultimately backed herself into a corner. If Belly makes this choice, there’s no going back to Jeremiah (who’s already fully removed himself from the equation btw), their families will not recover from another change of mind, and this is the last chance for her and Conrad. She’s already flip flopped enough between the brothers and this is the absolute last time. The thing is they don’t know each other any more. And the relationship was a disaster for many reasons, only some of which aren’t there anymore. But she has to make this decision with forever in mind because the alternative is more of the catastrophe they and their families are still recovering from. Even if the alternative is the right thing to do eventually. It’s a huge pressure to put on a young woman who historically hasn’t managed that kind of isolating pressure well. And it’s been less than a year. To be honest making the Jelly relationship 4 years is the most significant damaging factor in all of this. It could have stayed at 2, there still would have been fallout, she’s not as far away from knowing Conrad, they could have done long distance for a bit, added in a longer time jump which they’re happy to use to explain away everything, and the endgame could have been the same without both Belly and Conrad looking like absolute villains (because they are).
When she said she wouldn’t change her mind that was before Jeremiah cheated on her and started working for his dad, ignoring everything she wanted to do for their wedding etc. He wasn’t a great partner once they went there and people have to be able to change their minds when their relationships become toxic.
The writing doesnt support that Belly actually likes Conrad and would want to be with him everyday which is the funniest thing... She had like 2 months alone with Con at the summerhouse and was not able to meaningfully connect with him. They showed her making fun of him with Jere, getting sick of his bland chicken dinners, yelling at him, rejecting him. What about this screams forever? She was able to love Jere and be touchy in front of Con without a care (but in S2 she wasnt able to do that when with Con in front of Jere).
Belly and Conrad mirror Laurel and John. No way are they lasting, their relationship is doomed for divorce.
Jasmine Blu posted her thoughts on the latest episode of The Summer I Turned Pretty... and it's glorious.
When I tried adding the link to the post itself, it got removed so... whoops! The filters got me!
Anyway, I put the link in the comment section below! I've attached some screenshots here as well, but the whole thing is worth a read!
>"If I started out indifferent to the shipping, I can now say I have never been so radically against Belly having anything to do with Conrad Fisher."
Emily in Paris or a summery take on Netflix's You?
>"It’s really not fair for everyone else to always have to accommodate or work around Conrad’s conflict and emotionally avoidant behavior. The truth is that it’s not always on everyone else to do the emotional labor on Conrad’s behalf or to meet him halfway and adapt."
This covers about half of the article, but she shares the same frustrations as many of us here when it comes to the characterization and inconsistent writing, as well as the unfortunate romanticization of the toxic traits and behaviors exhibited by the expected victor of this bizarre little love triangle.
Again, I will attach the link to article below in the comment section.
I agree with everything in the article, especially the part talking about their brotherhood being one-sided. It's always been this way. Like this man wouldn't even take Jeremiah aside and be there for him when he found out about their mother dying of cancer, he just wanted him to go away so he could keep coming onto Jeremiah's date. Then he kissed Belly knowing that Jeremiah was hooking up with her on the same day Jeremiah found out about their mom.
>It genuinely never crosses Conrad’s mind that he could be doing irrevocable damage to his relationship with his brother forever. It doesn’t give him any pause at all.
Exactly, I mean he's just selfish and doesn't care. He left his high school aged brother to deal with their dying mother and the medical bills/ logistics all by himself. He was coming onto Belly as Jeremiah's best man, before he even knew about Cabo and used it as an excuse to tell Belly to call off the wedding and be with him instead. At least when he kissed Belly in season 1 he was like 'Whatever, Jere will be fine' (brother of the year), this time he knows Jeremiah won't be fine and he literally does not care.
He's the big brother yet we only see Jeremiah worrying about him. He's Jeremiah's only real remaining family, yet as long as we've known him he's been emotionally absent or ghosting him.
Jeremiah even tried to prioritize his happiness and step aside. Him and Belly never would have gotten together in the first place if Conrad didn't lie about his feelings, ghost his loved ones for four years under the guise of self-sacrifice, only to change his mind and blow up everyone's lives when the time came to actually be selfless.
Totally agree with you. One point of correction, Belly chose Jeremiah before Conrad took his feelings back in the motel scene. I think in Conrad’s warped mind she’s with Jeremiah because Conrad self-sacrificed. But the reality is Belly chose Jeremiah over Conrad knowing full well that Conrad wanted to be with her.
I don't get why Jere said 'did it make you feel noble, giving her up for me?'. Because Jere never knew Conrad took his confession back. Con told Jere he would tell Belly how he felt. Then Belly tells Jere that he was right about Conrad's feelings for her the next morning. As far as Jere is aware, Conrad didn't 'give her up' at all.
That being said, I do like that the line conveys that Conrad's hero-complex is about his own self-perception rather than actual selflessness. And how it's fundamentally condescending and disrespectful to undermine other people's autonomy whilst claiming it's 'for their own good'. Not to mention that it only hurts others. He prioritises making himself feel selfless over other people's wishes, even when it hurts them. He lets other people get hurt so he can feel like the hero, which is obviously actually a very selfish thing to do.
Conrad also tells Belly that Jeremiah is fine, just so she'd finally agree to date him. We all know Jeremiah wasn't. Then, there was Jere confiding that he's worried he'd forget Susannah and Conrad brushes it off with a quip about the Hermes/Apollo painting.
Conrad has never cared for his brother, or anyone but Laurel.
He also knew that Jeremiah wasn’t … he just chose to dismiss it tho - like fine he can discuss belly that but he should try and make an effort with his brother. I found that scene so sad, Jere was so absorbed with their mother illness and the problems they had with the insurance, the financial and harsh reality of what a cancer diagnosis at that stage truly means for a family- while Conrad was just so absorbed by his love for belly and just comes in to “check “ in on Jere s love life?? But he hears nothing from what actually Jere says, and instead zeroes in only on whether Jere will give his blessing so he can declare his undying love for Belly cause his chest is hurting?!
Like who cares in that moment about this so much so that you don’t even consider your little brother is interested in a far more important conversation on a subject that truly matters!
Yh, he thinks because Jere has given his blessing he now has the right to Belly. But he knows if he actually told her the truth that Jere was really struggling then Belly would still choose not to be together. So he doesn't give her all the information so that he can circumvent her own will and get the outcome he wants. He wants to date her, and Jere has let him, but he doesn't consider that Belly herself should actually get to make her own choice. He knows she wants to date him, and he thinks that that's all that matters. Belly has other concerns than just her own desires that go into her decision but he doesn't take her priorities seriously. But there's no such thing as uniformed consent. It's informed consent or it's manipulation.
yesss. So much for the promise he made to Susannah being 'titanium'. He convinces himself he's protecting Jere by taking back his feelings for Belly in s2, despite Jere begging him to tell her the truth. And it's not even like Conrad isn't aware that telling her would be protecting Jere. He fully does not want to tell her at all until Jere says 'do it for me'. That's what convinces him. He tells her for Jere's sake.
So when he takes it back the next day, he is absolutely doing it to protect himself. He convinces himself that he's doing it for Jere so he can be selfish whilst protecting his own hero-complex. And in order to do that he has to undermine both Jeremiah's and Belly's autonomy (ofc Belly had already chosen Jere, but that doesn't change the fact that Conrad was trying to take that choice away from her). There's just such a fundamental lack of respect you have to have for other people to disregard their explicit wishes and convince yourself you're doing what's best for them.
Conrad convinces himself that lying to Belly is protecting Jere when Jere specifically says he'll let her go at the motel. Yes, he'd clearly be hurt, but he's made the choice to deal with that if he has to. Now that losing Belly would completely crush Jere, Conrad decides that protecting his brother from hurt doesn't matter anymore. THIS is exactly why Jere was right at the motel. He wanted to sort out these feelings before anyone got back into relationships and the stakes got too high so they could prevent further hurt later down the line. But ofc Conrad can't conceive of a world in which he doesn't know best and can't allow Jere to make his own decisions about what he can handle - which is especially frustrating because that whole season was Jere proving he could take on more than what Conrad expected of him.
It's so frustrating because all of Conrad's 'selflessness' is so clearly rationalisations for what he wants to do anyway - just like how lying about Susannah's cancer was just so he didn't have to face it. Just because he convinces himself he's being selfless doesn't make it his earnest motivation.
I commented about what was said here on another post, but I’ll add it here too. I agree with all of this. I’ve been saying he’s toxic and manipulative. He does things on his terms and plays with Belly’s feelings. I also said him getting Laurel and their dad on board with the wedding worked because well. they all favour him which is unhealthy. With regards to the ring Conrad getting it for her is a controlling tactic because, if Jer gave it to her and they did get married, one day down the line she would find out Conrad did that so…another thing he has control over and she would constantly look at it and, he would pop up which is what he wants and it’s creepy. He comes across as a stalker with what I read in the letters from the old book. He spoke to her so rudely in the letters and kept sending one even though she wasn’t replying yet, she had been talking in email back and forth with Jer so they obviously made up. That is someone we are in everyday life told, to get away from and report if things are deemed dangerous. (Adding here a comment to say, I think deep down he knows everyone favours him so he in away uses that to his advantage)
>I think deep down he knows everyone favours him so he in away uses that to his advantage
I completely agree. It may be a subconscious thing (I doubt it) but it’s happening none the less. He’s also never been called out on any of his bullshit apart from Belly and Jere so it was refreshing to see the blinkers come off Steven, and Taylor being brutally honest straight to his face with the perspective she’s had all along. Agree that he also tries to control everything - he’s the super manipulative one.
I hope someone - Jeremiah or maybe Steven are super clear with the parents what happened, that Conrad was the catalyst and behaved inexcusably, and that Jeremiah was right to call it off because Belly and Conrad had lied to him. I need to see the adults watch Conrad fall hard from the pedestal they built for him, and straight onto concrete not the soft landing they usually coddle him with. And then I want them to reflect on their massive contribution to the mess left. Adam should make Conrad pay for the wedding cancellation 😊
The thing is only Jer and mainly Belly have seen and heard what he’s like. Conrad doesn’t speak like that around or even to Laurel, Steven or Adam. I mean Conrad maybe in season one was off with Adam here and there but, he was a teen so they just chalked it up to that saying he was moody and heartbroken etc. He does also give sarcastic comments back to Adam in season three but, that’s it really nothing as major as the way he talks to Jer and Belly. He knows he is getting away with that as, I’m sure if Laurel and Adam heard him they would hopefully put him in line. I love that Taylor called him out when they were outside the house as, she had to deal with Belly being upset and spiralling. She of course doesn’t know what he said so again didn’t hear how he speaks to them but, Taylor still did and said the right thing. I think Steven also did and said the right thing. People are saying he wouldn’t have if he knew Jer did what he did with Lacie but, he still would have as he said ‘I know what you said last night and Belly told Jer so now he’s gone’, he then said other things like we can all still see you hung up on Belly and you make no effort with anyone and haven’t in four years and Jer does. I mean if he knew about Lacie then he would have of course spoke to Jer but, he was cheating too with Taylor so he has not really a leg to stand on with that subject. I do want to say as I’ve said before, Jer and Belly broke up right before Cabo so technically it wasn’t cheating. Was it right well if they broke up then he can really do what he wants so, that’s something an individual would need to decide. Yes the parents at some point could be spoken to about what has happened, of course that needs to come from Belly and Jer first then talk to Conrad about how he’s been acting and put him in line. Yes I want Laurel to reflect on when they were kids and think, actually as a mother I should have spoke up when my friend Susannah made comments to Belly as it wasn’t right. Adam needs to apologise a lot to Jer for always putting him down. I really do feel sorry for him with a father like that. I of course do feel sorry for Conrad with the depression, panic attacks and loosing a parent but, he still shouldn’t have treated Belly the way he did. He definitely shouldn’t be acting the way he is now like she’s some prized possession and, don’t even get me started on the letters I read. He is possessive and creepy.
Essentially, Conrad is operating under the impression that the only reason Belly was with Jeremiah is because he decided to "give her up," and Jeremiah was the default choice because he was better at the time. But the moment he decides that Jeremiah isn't "better," he proceeds to blow everything up. He attempts to take ownership of Belly and their future together, as if he were reclaiming an old sweater he had loaned his brother.
This is exactly where Conrad’s character falls apart for me. If the storyline insists on a cliche ending then why not instead write him as the better person for the finale? Yet instead of growth we get another act of selfishness that only reinforces the idea that everything he does serves to protect himself. If we are to root for a cliche tragic sad boy trope, then be cliche and give us a real reason to believe this act. All it would have taken was speaking to his brother first and declaring his feelings with even a shred of consideration - given the difficult circumstances and timing - that would have read as maturity and genuine love.
Instead, the way it played out completely undercut his character and sealed the fact that this so-called martyr act was never sacrifice but just a performance he convinces himself (and others) is noble by intention so he can keep a clear conscience.
Nope! Never seen the show, but heard about it. But god, that trope is the most annoying. Imagine dealing with someone who thinks they know how to manage your life better than you do. It would be exhausting!
I thought this quote from the interview was really validating as a fan:
TV: If it had somehow fallen through, do you think you would've been satisfied with the way season three ended as an ending for the series as a whole?
JH: If it had fallen through, then I would've had to add on to [season 3]. But I think that the season is about Belly and Conrad coming back together and what needed to happen in order for their reunion to happen. So I know that people were like, "Oh, we barely got any time with the two of them happy, and we wanted episodes of them as a couple." But the journey really was about the reunion, so I didn't want to do a five-minute montage at the end of the season. I thought the movie felt more fitting.
I would just like to raise my hand and say I would be MUCH more vicious about a boy bouncing between two sisters. While she’s not wrong about like, society writ large having double standards for women, Belly is a wild example to rely on here and i think infantilizing women who make hurtful choices is not really great for their redemption arc.
Ladies ofc jump down my throat if I speak out of turn here.
I said this to my wife while we were watching the show almost verbatim. I love this show and I love a rom com drama I’m a softie but I think what took me out the most is just how (ironic I know) unrealistic a lot of it felt sometimes when it came to the back and forth between the three of them (and I honestly lost it at going BACK to Conrad after FOUR YEARS with his brother)
It felt sometimes like they forgot to make Belly kinda understand her actions bc so many times she just came off as so selfish and immature and I just kept wondering why it felt so diffrent when if it was a dude he would rightfully be dragged by the community lol
i don't know why these guys are hell-bent on making Belly seem like the nice girl here..
Either you should have written her with a lot more nuance.. but don't blame the audience for pointing out the obvious flaws in her.
What is writing a character with nuance if not writing them with flaws so that they can’t be simply summed up as a nice girl? How do you think they should have approached her character? I’m just confused by your points here.
If the genders were reversed the show would have been cancelled. There is no way people would support a man bouncing between sisters.
It wouldn't make sense tbh because men usually know what they want and go after it.
That’s pretty much the plot of One Tree Hill’s first few seasons (Peyton and Brooke aren’t sisters but they might as well be) and they get waaaay more criticism than Lucas does for bouncing back and forth way more than Belly ever does
Yes! Exactly, I feel like, if anything, people are giving Belly a pass BECAUSE she's a woman and she's just "messy and young"
Sorry for my strong opinion but: Then she should have been writing the story differently.
The way she wrote her and the way she left Belly's real feelings 'a mysterie' to keep the team Conrad/team Jerry thing alive, has done nothing good for Belly's character.
The way she treated Conrad in all his time of grief was mean. And the way she talked about it afterwards gave everybody around him the idea he was the villain in the break up. And Jenny never set that straight!
And then there is the feeling i have, that Jenny doesn't know a thing about modern feminism. She wants Belly to become a strong woman. But strong isn't harsh, strong doesn't mean you have to act like a b*tch. (Like the whole beach scene, like the whole wedding day debacle)
Running away from your responsibilities isn't strong. Leaving a man hanging without any recognition for his feelings or give him some form of closure. Not even write him back is mean, not strong.
She wants Belly to grow in Paris, but she is miserable until she sleeps with Benito... How is that strong?
There are a lot more things she wrote that made people harsh to Belly. But it was all her writing that caused it!
well i wouldn't wanna have a boyfriend who treat me like belly did conrad. tbh last 3 episodes i didn't even want them to end together. they both deserved happy ending but with someone else.
Two things can be true. We can support women and be feminists AND ask for someone to be accountable for their mistakes and messy behaviors (and none of that has to do with their gender).
Hey there are movies like Love Rosie and Something Borrowed and a billion other concepts of when you love someone else but the timing isn't right.
The summer I turned pretty is just annoying because so much of it could easily be avoided so it makes you pull your hair out.
Lol I know the title is a bit dramatic lol This post is just for the women! guys, please stay the hell out. Not everything’s about you.
I need girlfriends to discuss what’s going on, because are you also going through some emotional turmoil seeing what’s happening between Belly and Conrad? Because I’m not okay. It’s bringing up a lot of my own feelings that I didn’t even know existed.
Please tell me I’m not alone. Like, why am I crying over fictional teenagers when I can’t even text back the real ones in my life? 😭
Who’s belly and conrad?
Same question
theyre from a series called the "the summer i turned pretty" thats why op named the title the summer i turned lonely to reference that😭😭
I was born lonely, I have lived lonely, and I will eventually die lonely. But between life and death, there will be a moment when I have someone to share my home and my life with.life doesn't stuck in the past, but moves on
Honestly! I get it! Mee tooo! When he said “ no one has ever fully got me” it killed me! His mother was the only one that put him first 😭
Thx❤️
Idk I just lost my 11 month baby czn I can't get rid of the pain I cried so much we buried her today
ok ill stay out of it but i hope you arent alone
Use this post for observations and reactions to The Summer I Turned Pretty season 3, episode 3.
All sub and Reddit rules apply, but spoilers do not need to be tagged individually, since the entire post is already tagged.
Belly is really annoying especially in this past episode.. I mean I don't understand if she is really over Conrad, i don't think so but she is pretending so well
Conrad is staying because he saw her crying. Nobody talk to me.
i dont understand what conrad sees in her anymore because all of her likeability is gone
Honestly, the only person who can really explain why he likes her is Conrad sometimes it just boils down to I like the way they smile or I like the way they make me feel when we’re around each other. Hopefully at some point they’ll address that.
I think with long-term romantic situations, it becomes less about what you see in them and more about how you feel about them. The feeling of comfort and familiarity transcends logic, or any explicit traits about them
But could we talk about the fact that Belly is really upset by the fact Conrad don't to be his brother best man at the wedding with the girl he still loves...
Them mocking Conrad on the pool literally pmo so much. I was praying for Conrad to leave and never come back 😭😭
Belly lost me the moment she mocked him 🥲 felt so bad for Conrad he deserves better than her please
how is it that belly and jeremiah are canonically more immature than they were 4 years ago in their lives
I'm assuming they are making us dislike her for a reason. She will end up going to Paris, do a little growing up and then will be ready for Conrad... at least I freaking hope so cause giiirrrrrl what are you doing.
In the book, she ends up with concord after calling off the wedding and being by herself for awhile so that’s most likely the way the show will end.
I hope Conrad will open up and tells Belly he still loves her... I mean we know Susannah wanted Conrad to be the one for Belly.
Reflecting, I wonder whether the magic of Season One is going to be difficult to recreate. One of the most compelling things about S1 is that it properly recreated the feeling of being a teenager, where every prospect opens in front of you, the world is this new rich experience, and all if these these strong emotions and feelings suddenly rush to the surface.
For me the shock and power Belly suddenly discovers in her new appearance is palpable. Taylor hints at it in her bedroom and Susannah later reflects ‘she is blooming’ Belly is beginning to be seen, right from the moment Jumper notices her in the gas station and of course when Conrad lifts his head to see her framed in the sunlight on the driveway at Cousins.
There are so many moments where this awakening is beautifully (and perhaps for some of us nostalgically) articulated.
For me the moment Conrad starts playing with her hair in the car after the bonfire is a perfect representation of this liminal state between childhood and something else, as yet undefined, something not yet quite tangible, but glimpsble around the next corner, in the periphery. The jolt of electricity, of the changing dynamic. The world around them has shifted slightly off its axis. Imagine how she lay in bed afterwards grappling and wondering about what happened and what thoughts he might have had too, shocked at his own changing instincts.
It is this series of subtle and nascent moments, pregnant with possibility, the shoulder to shoulder on the beach, the almost kiss, the messages they send after, the little wave at the door of the country club, that he has driven down their just to see her. The long looks, the little involuntary thrill she gets when he sends her the message that he didn’t invite her to the ball because Susannah told him to, the nervous hesitation of the fireplace scene that have me sighing and squirming in my seat.
Though Belly and Jere get a couple of moments, I’m thinking of the half spoken and beautiful utterance of ‘I still,’ and maybe the finger graze in the pool on the day of the party, Jeremiah’s and Belly’s relationship is more overt, the throat grabbing, you don’t have to hurt yourself to get my attention, sometimes very literal conversations Jere and Belly have will never hold a candle to the poetry of the unspoken, between B and C and the tension it creates for the viewer.*
Just wondering how/if the dynamic of the older cast and characters can sustain this kind of magic, noting Jenny’s comment that ‘Belly goes through the wringer in S3.’ I am speculating that the kind of innocence joy and satisfaction wish fulfilment that goes along with the longing in S1, is tinged I suppose with the guilt of the forbidden fruit, and I wonder how this will ‘feel’ for the viewer!!
Also wondering what moments for all of you are the perfect portrayal of that kind of butterfly emergent feeling of adolescence?
*note this is not about who is the better communicator and what that could possibly mean. I have a post about that here for those interested.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSummerITurnedPrett/s/IY5m1Eo9Je
It is about the narrative device
I wouldn’t be too pessimistic… I think the next season has potential to be brimming with tension.
The more I think about the scenes between B and J in season 1 and 2, the more I notice how performative their interactions always were. B constantly has something to prove.
Season one: The pool scene: she has to prove she is over C and could seriously consider J as a partner. The car scene: she has to prove that she truly chose Jere as a Deb ball partner.
Season two: The golf course scene where B is trying to kiss J on a date (or sth like that) The brown car scene: she i trying to prove that she has given up all her dreams, is over C and wants J The motel scene: she wants to prove she is over C and wants J
All these scenes live from intention, non of them were created through natural tension. We don’t have anything almost happened. Every single scene is definitive and intentional. However, imo they also lack tension. We live for these almost scenes that slowly build up tension.
So my guess for season three is, that this will be one of the key differences between these relationships. I think J and Bs scenes will still stay performative, they still will have something to prove, or we will see their closeness as part of a routine. However, we won’t see any natural tension.
In contrast to this we will get B and C brimming with tension. She is so freaking aware of C (through out all of book three)… when she first stays in Cousins with C (chapter 30 book3) she tells us she avoided him for the first week, but then proceeds to tell us everything he’s done during that week because she kept watching him from the window. Simply put, I think her attraction to C is on a whole different level, compared to her attraction to J. And I think it will be palpable. I think we will get some really mundane scenes where she will simply watch him, and the tension will rise. I think we will also get a lot of talks and a lot of domesticity between the two of them, but we will also get scenes were she catches herself being attracted to him during mundane tasks like him setting the table or him cooking.
I could also see that in the scenes were J is overly affectionate with B in the book, we as an omniscient viewer will be able to see, that J does this to get the two of them out of the others orbit. I could see them sneaking glances, timed just right so that only J notices, and he does something territorial to get them to pay attention to him.
Oh I agree. S1 is my feel good return watch for this reason. Properly tingly fingernail stuff if anyone knows what I mean by that - or that just me?! Lots of echoes in my adolescence as we’ve previously discussed. It’s the shyness from both of them that threads through S2 for Belly and Conrad too - despite the eventual heartbreak and the anger from Belly towards him (unjustified in my adult opinion but totally get it from a 16 year old POV). S2 is more teenaged behaviour from Belly and Jeremiah. Lusty. Headstrong. Even they were shy in S1 although he was less subtle I’d suggest (and more manipulative - this isn’t up for debate. He just was). I suspect S3 will be similarly so for a while, doubling down on their choices, until it’s not OK anymore between them. I’m hopeful for aching romance, actual expression of feeling, and realisation. With a banging soundtrack. I listened to Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol on my long drive home. That’s 100% S3 Belly and Conrad coded IM (humble) O.
Tingly fingernail is the perfect description. I get this feeling in my wrists too, and at times it almost induces jitters!! Agree about Snow Patrol, there is a song called Finish Line that I love that I think would be perfect for a kind of montage of Conrad, Jere and Belly going there seperate ways after the abandoned wedding, the shared grief of the three of them. I think there is a great opportunity to sort of show them separately after the event. You know, Conrad leaving for CA, looking out a window, Jere closing the house up for the summer, Belly on her way to Paris. Could be really moving.
There is also a single from the latest snow patrol album I think is really Belly Conrad coded, called the Beginning.
Use this post for observations and reactions to The Summer I Turned Pretty season 3, episode 3.
All sub and Reddit rules apply, but I've taken care of the spoiler tag for you. :)
I convinced myself they wouldn’t put this even though it was in the books. Adam HAD to know they were together RIGHT?! In the books they weren’t official I don’t think but Conrad literally calls belly his girlfriend. Everyone knew EXCEPT ADAM. This man is literal trash
I didn't read the books. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he was probably just calling Belly Conrad's sis in order to help him move on and see her differently but that man is trash so probably not.
I think the point of keeping that was to show how just of a negligent father Adam is — even though Conrad is his favourite (for the “on paper” reasons), he doesn’t actually care about Conrad’s wants and needs and interests. Whereas Susannah was far too invested…
No, Adam didn‘t know… he „never changed anyone‘s diapers“ and Susannah was taking care of everything, including her Christmas gifts, so Adam only cared about his stuff… at summer he also visited here and there for some days, but he didn‘t spend time with the family, he was busy working…
Note she didn’t tell Annika about the engagement or she would have gotten a real answer
“Are you secretly judging for me getting back together with him”
“I think you care too much about what other people think. I trust you to make the best decision for you”
Uh, Belly, as someone older and wiser - that’s called dodging the question and it’s a big fat YES.
He didn’t want her to go to Paris and find someone there.. so he proposed.. they get married and she won’t go to Paris.. or she goes to Paris a married woman and he’ll go with her..
Very valid though.
I do know this was a plot mention ish in the book where Belly’s dad couldn’t fully afford it but didn’t say it but Belly noticed and Jeremiah didn’t.
But very valid point !
Exactly though!! And the fact also in the show Jeremiah did the expensive one though too!
And sure we don’t know it but I’m sure Conrad saw her looking at the prices and did the cheaper one too due to that.
I just. Gosh. Conrad. You deserve the world.
It's the little things like attentiveness and thoughtful consideration that make Conrad so amazing. He is so in-tune with her needs.
Never read the book ...Conrad nailed it...I loved this bit...because she will never be his little sis...and even if they dated for 6 months it was still more significant to her then the time she had spent with Jeremiah. That's my view as someone who just watches this show..
Hi! I (F20) haven’t posted here in a while, and I’d like to thank everybody who has helped me during my coping period after my break up.
I wanted to not enter into a relationship however as luck how it be I ended up in a summer-long relationship (ending because I have to move to another state) and from the latter half of the relationship I learned a lot about myself and the scars that are still in me after my last relationship.
When the relationship got more real and the guy I’m with (M20) told me he loved me and he wants a future with me and hopefully we stay together and stuff. I freaked out. The emotions and the baggage from my last relationship crept out when he told me that to the point where I even began having the same anxiety flashes that I had in my last relationship for no reason at all.
Whenever the guy I’m with was busy or out with his friends and can’t respond as quickly the scars of neglect came out and I remember freaking out on him and even though he said it’s ok and he understands I still feel bad about it.
(If it provides a good amount of context my last relationship was 3 years of lovebombing and so any form of not responding just has me on high alert. My ex used to always also talk about how he would flirt with or be flirted with cute girls whenever he was gone and it just made me feel even worse.)
There’s times where my habit of my past relationship came out where just flashes of anxiety of the relationship come in whenever I’m the most at ease or whenever I’m about to eat.
From this time I realized I’m not in any form able to have a stable relationship and I think I really do need help. The guy I’m with wants us to stay in touch and he’s planning on driving 11 hours in November to stay with me for four days and so I told him we can stay in touch but the minute I move I need to work on myself because I’m too broken to handle a relationship and I don’t want to hurt him.
It’s crazy how even though you can be totally over someone but not over the scars and the pain they inflicted on you.
I too just had a summer relationship a month after my 3 year long relationship… I am also a 20 year old female…. my new partner is the one moving back across the country while I’m staying here for school… our situations atm are very similar!
I think it’s awesome you’re putting time into yourself and you’re able to recognize old habits from your past relationship. I know it’s not easy to make that decision, but you should be very proud of yourself!
How are you feeling about staying in touch with him?
Funnily enough I broke up with two to three weeks ago because I realized he had issues that I don’t have the resources to help him solve (I’m pursuing a master’s and I worry about the people I’m in a relationship with a lot so I don’t think I could handle that.) But I did learn a lot about my worth and how to set boundaries and what are red flags so I do think the 41 day relationship was still worth it.
My ex did that stuff too, and I never recognized he was lovebombing me or maniplating me until now, 3 months after the breakup. It's so messed up because to anyone else it just looks like they were treating you nicely but he wasnt, he would hold it over my head and expect stuff from me and ignore me when he was upset which hurt really badly.
And I feel the same with what you said, that I am like completely over him as a person, but not the situation and what he did to me because it was so hurtful.
I’m really sorry that’s happened to you. It’s hard to see that form of abuse until you look back on the relationship later. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about it we could make a mini support group for people in our situation that’s hoping to form healthier relationships with others and within themselves later on.
Relationship dynamics in the Summer I Turned Pretty
Key Considerations on Relationship Dynamics in "The Summer I Turned Pretty":
Love Triangle: The central theme revolves around a love triangle involving Belly, Conrad, and Jeremiah. This dynamic explores the complexities of first love, friendship, and the emotional turmoil that comes with choosing between two people.
Growth and Maturity: Throughout the series, Belly's relationships evolve as she matures. Her feelings for Conrad and Jeremiah reflect her journey from adolescence to adulthood, highlighting how relationships can shape personal growth.
Family Influence: The relationships are deeply intertwined with family dynamics, particularly Belly's connection to her mother and the Fisher family. This adds layers to the romantic relationships, as family expectations and history play significant roles.
Summer Setting: The summer backdrop serves as a catalyst for change and exploration. The carefree atmosphere contrasts with the weight of the characters' emotional struggles, emphasizing the fleeting nature of summer romances.
Friendship vs. Romance: The series also examines the tension between friendship and romantic feelings, particularly how Belly navigates her long-standing friendships with the Fisher brothers while developing deeper feelings for them.
Takeaways:
Recommendation: If you're interested in exploring these themes further, consider discussing the characters' motivations and how their relationships reflect broader themes of love and identity. This can deepen your understanding of the narrative and its emotional resonance.
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