What Are the Themes of The Sinner?

ORIGINAL POST

Hear me out--Im a former preacher kid and professor and seeing the similarities in vampirism and missionary doctrine is blowing my mind!

In this story, the vampire archetype becomes more than a predator; it’s a symbol of spiritual transformation, but also domination. Like vampires, Christian missionaries promised eternal life but demanded a death of sorts — the death of old identities, traditions, and native beliefs.

Now, put this in the context of Ireland. Pre-Christian Ireland was deeply pagan, with its own rich cosmology, sacred groves, and druidic rites. Christian conversion swept through with both awe and blood, often cloaked in divine justification. Much like vampiric bite — seductive, irreversible, and often violent — it "saved" the soul by killing the old self.

The idea that one must "die to live" is as Christian as it is vampiric. (enter "Take me to Church's" 'deathless death' lyrics). Conversion or being bit wasn’t just about monstrosity — it was about power, identity, and who gets to define what's community. This is why it's so important to own the music...if you think about it gospel is just the blues but under a form of 'vampirism' that ties it self to colonial identity rather than the ancestor.

Considering that music and dance are considered 'instruments of the devil' under Christianity ( fact: percussion and dance were also outlawed in enslaved and Indigenous communities in colonial America), you can see why Miles lives through the monsteous night only to enter the church the next morning and truly see the ways in which his community is already infiltrated with a vampirism. Although vampires can not exist during the day, there are forms (church dogma and white supremacists in the final scene) that thrive in daylight.

Coogler is an incredible storyteller and there are many aspects of this story that deserve deeper reflection. What are your thoughts? ( And if you reference my ideas in other posts, please tag me so I can follow the conversation. I'm an academic scholar and forever learner and would love to further engage with this discourse!) #sinners #ryancoogler #sinnersthemovie

12 replies

DexRei · 2 months ago

Just got around to watching the film and my immediate take away was the connection of converting to vampirism as converting to Christianity.

Death and rebirth was a big one, but the main similarity to me was the "we are saving you" menatlity. In the same way missionaries believed it was their divine duty to save the souls of those they colonised, Remmick and Stack both believe the idea that their "gift" needs to be spread, in order to save others.

3 upvotes on reddit

MatClassicalMusic · 1 month ago

I don’t think the movie is really about that. Although Christianity plays a role in the main character’s inner conflicts for choosing his way of living, the movie is mainly talking about self identity, and culture. It’s all about choosing your path. It’s not like the life pre-vampire is portrayed as good, since all the characters have conflicts, did pretty bad things like killing, scamming, robbing, cheating or other stuff. But for the main guy, it’s about his conflict between become a blues musician, or following what his dad wants, be a good church musician. The Lord’s prayer doesn’t work on the vampire because he doesn’t seem to believe in it himself. What saved him was his guitar. What the vampires tried to get from him is his will of going his own way. They envied the fact that he embraced his culture.

1 upvotes on reddit

Puzzleheaded_Mix7039 · 4 months ago

I also took it as a way that the vampires (symbolizing industry/ culture) wanted to feed on the black culture. They were attracted to the music - remmick wanted the music for himself and is that a commentary on “the man” always wanting always feeding on the creativity of black culture.

3 upvotes on reddit

No-Good-One-Shoe · 3 months ago

I was confused though because he wasn't "The man" he was an Irish immigrant who was also oppressed by the man. I saw it more as an effort to join forces with other oppressed people to fight against "The man" but the main characters rejected it. Because although the Chinese, Irish, and black people had similar experiences in America, the main character still felt as if they needed to take it upon themselves to destroy the Klan. Because they had a uniquely oppressive experience in American history.

I did get hints at feeding on the culture for sure, but I think it went deeper than that.

1 upvotes on reddit

lil_bill1028 · 2 months ago

I agree with you here I’ve been doing some reading on what was meant and I think remmick was jealous of what Sammie had in his ability to connect and see his ancestors. Seems like a symbolism that even though a lot of African Americans’ roots were erased they still have a tie to their ancestors as opposed to the Irish and other European cultures that don’t necessarily put a lot of emphasis on ancestry. Even the scene with the chows and seeing their ancestry during Sammy’s performance seems to back this theory up.

1 upvotes on reddit

daretoeatapeach · 4 months ago

Your take is more similar to what the guys were saying on the Partially Examined Life episode on Sinners. They highlighted how the music industry exploits like a vampire.

1 upvotes on reddit

Friendly_Archer_4463 · OP · 4 months ago

Yes, I agree this was really emphasized throughout the film. I think another element was to highlight the thief we 'invite in.' The vampires are perfect representations of the ways in which Christian evangelicalism asks to be invited in with the promise of salvation but only robs the culture. Gospel is just a lighter version of the blues...

2 upvotes on reddit

daretoeatapeach · 4 months ago

It's not subtle, they're even praying when they dunk him. Still I want site how to read it, despite knowing is a baptism. Is it his intent to baptise Sammie as a vampire? Or is he merely mocking the church rituals?

1 upvotes on reddit

dianbyrn · 2 months ago

Sammie assumed the Lord’s Prayer would save him because he never imagined a demon could know it. Remmick makes it very clear that Christianity was forced onto him when he was still human the same it was forced onto victims of the Transatlantic Slave Trade. That’s why when he goes back home and sees his father he gets flash backs to Remmick. Two people who thought their crusades were righteous and wanted to use Sammie for his music.

1 upvotes on reddit

ApolloRubySky · 1 month ago

💯 it was a baptism. The similarities between the vampire and Christian missionaries was not coincidental - it was the point.

1 upvotes on reddit

Radkins0 · 23 days ago

I loved the symbolism and connection here, but was a bit disappointed because the history is fudged a little bit (in a film that otherwise pays so much attention to historical detail). The Christianization of Ireland was largely peaceful and it was Roman and Coptic monks who brought Christianity to the island. The Irish actually evangelized the pagan Northumbrians in Britain and were Christians before both the Anglo-Saxon or Norman invasions.

1 upvotes on reddit

Friendly_Archer_4463 · OP · 4 months ago

Yes...and Remmick being baptized 'by fire' sort of speak is a whole new spin on 'second coming' theology hehe

1 upvotes on reddit

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r/blackmen • [2]

Summarize

Black men, what are your thoughts on Sinners and the themes it had?

Posted by msandszeke · in r/blackmen · 4 months ago

I thought it was interesting with its one of its key focus on the consequences of succumbing to temptation

14 upvotes on reddit

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BearSpray007 · 4 months ago

Started off SUPER strong. Loved the atmosphere, the characters, the music. Michael B Jordan did his thing. Last 25% of the film was the weakest for me. I was actually expecting a deeper connection between Sammie and the music and the demons/spirits whatever.

Movie was PACKED full of hidden themes. We have the twins (two aspects of the same). We have one twin more strongly identifying with this culture, but has a subtle resentment and skepticism of his heritage. He’s with the dark skinned woman.

We have the other twin, whose love interest is a white passing woman who ultimately is the downfall of everyone in the juke joint. Their romance is tumultuous and dangerous. Ultimately in order enjoy any enduring peace with that relationship, the brother has to give up his humanity. He loses his soul and becomes a vampire.

Again, we have the White passing female character who attempts to parlay with other evil characters who look white, and invites the evil back into the community of Black folks.

We have the white characters in the beginning, the clan members who ignore the warnings of the Native Americans and invite the evil into their home. They identify with him because they’re white and are skeptical of the natives because they’re not.

We have the asian character (another white passing character) that was invited into the community of black folks, that ultimately submits to fear and self interest and invites the evil into the juke joint, which leads to many being killed or turned...and then killed

Thats just a start…

9 upvotes on reddit

No-Lab4815 · 4 months ago

>We have the asian character (another white passing character) that was invited into the community of black folks, that ultimately submits to fear and self interest and invites the evil into the juke joint, which leads to many being killed or turned...and then killed

This part pissed me off so much. Between that and me not being into musicals is why I gave it an 8.

3 upvotes on reddit

BearSpray007 · 4 months ago

Yeah to me that part seemed like an unnecessary plot device to get us to the climax. Didn’t make any sense to me.

1 upvotes on reddit

mynameisntcindy · 26 days ago

Asians are not white passing, this is a ridiculous take

1 upvotes on reddit

LEAD-SUSPECT · 4 months ago

Lots of hidden gems in this movie… and I thought it was good that it gave you what you wanted and didn’t overstay its welcome…

It touched on race and culture but it didn’t beat you over the head with it…

I thought the ending felt slightly rushed and I wish they had more of a backstory for the villain and how he ended up being chased by the Indians…

But overall a decent time at the movies… it really is a film you need to see in a theatre!

9/10

16 upvotes on reddit

modern_indophilia · 4 months ago

What do you mean “it didn’t beat you over the head [with race and culture]?” That was literally the context and main theme of the entire film.

0 upvotes on reddit

SoulPossum · 4 months ago

It wasn't the focus in the sense that the story was like "the vampires are actually just racists and the whole conflict is about racism." The head vampire isn't really concerned about race. He didn't pick the juke joint because of some sort of hatred of black people. He came because of the music. There's definitely an element of "the commoditization of black" in there, but I think some people were expecting it to be to Jim Crow vampires or klan vampires and it was refreshing that it wasn't that

6 upvotes on reddit

Work_In_Progress93 · 4 months ago

Be careful who you invite into the cookout

7 upvotes on reddit

Majestic_Active984 · 4 months ago

Evil demons live in watermelon and cornbread and deep fried chicken. Happy haunting

1 upvotes on reddit

GandolftheGarcia · 4 months ago

I thought it was a great movie, masterfully executed. Definitely worth seeing again. There’s a lot to take in. 💪🏾

10 upvotes on reddit

UncontainedOne · 4 months ago

Excellent film. 10/10.

15 upvotes on reddit

NoSteam97 · 18 days ago

10/10? have you ever seen a movie before?

1 upvotes on reddit

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r/exmuslim • [3]

Summarize

The movie Sinners

Posted by zizosky21 · in r/exmuslim · 4 months ago

The symbolism, the music, the emotions, the message—it all blends together and pulls you into a whirlwind of meaning and representation.

Let’s start with the message.

As an atheist, I saw it as a fight for freedom—freedom in its truest sense: the ability to be exactly who you are while coexisting in a society that embraces harmony, not control.

The vampires, to me, represented religion—trying to consume the good that arises from struggle and individuality and drown it in darkness. They wanted to take the blues born from pain and make it theirs. When manipulation didn’t work, they didn’t hesitate to use force.

Religions that strip you of identity… where music is either forbidden or only allowed in ways they approve. Where art—arguably the purest form of self-expression—is suppressed or sanitized.

I’m glad the movie is doing well. It shows people are waking up, though I stay cautiously optimistic.

That final scene? When those trapped in the system admit that the best they ever felt was when they were free? That the price of hiding their true selves in the dark was too high?

Powerful.

This movie is a masterpiece—a mental revolution, iconic, raw, and deeply resonant. I loved it.

8 upvotes on reddit

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Waste-Research953 · 4 months ago

There is huge backlash to it on Muslim TikTok. It screams racism because why aren’t they enraged at all the haraam on the tv show Mo?

6 upvotes on reddit

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r/TrueFilm • [4]

Summarize

In Sinners, why was it important to show the Juke Joint was doomed?

Posted by Zech_Judy · in r/TrueFilm · 1 month ago

I was struck by how much time the movie Sinners spent driving home the point that the Juke Joint was never going to be a success, regardless of vampires.

Even if Remmick neve showed up, the KKK was coming, and there's no way Smoke and Stack could kill that many white guys **and** get away with it.

Even if the KKK didn't show up, the Juke Joint would inevitably go broke because too many customers paid with plantation tokens.

Even if the Juke Joint turned a profit, the Chicago gangs were going to eventually figure out who stole from them and come for revenge.

So, that's a lot of time spent on multiple dooms coming down the line. Why was that important to the story?

283 upvotes on reddit

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Enlilohim · 1 month ago

No. Those brothers joined a gang. That's on them. The system is fucking all of us. Maybe the point is that regardless, the business will fail. It's called sinners, and all I saw were examples of how humans get tied up in sin. Maybe business is a part of it.

Idk what movies yall be watching,lately they've been clear cut and dry. Case in point, the only survivor was the preachers son. Annie had a line about prayer saving the twins in Chicago. Okay now if that line was thrown in to imply the notion of her power, then what does it say about the father, who prays for his sons salvation everyday and he happened to be the only one to live to tell the tale? What does the boy do? Turn his back on God. Becomes a relatively famous musician.

All of the representation is a distraction because it ties into the occult to a degree. That's why the one scene with all the generations was popping up showing how we carry that sin from out ancestors but think it comes out in an expression of art. It's not. It's deals made for talent. Sin.

Somebody take me in your arms is a direct reference to not wanting to be in God's arms.

We're too brainwashed to see the demons play with our minds and lead us into this life we think is life. It's just the short season.

-13 upvotes on reddit

AwTomorrow · 30 days ago

That’s one reading!

Though I think throughout the film, our central sympathies lie with Sammy, even and including his later music career. The Church is shown in direct parallel to the vampires - both are communities that coerce the marginalised to assimilate into them, whose only interest in the pure soulful music Sammy plays is what selfish use it can be for them.

Sammy stays true to the beauty and the art and the history contained in his music, even if it means turning down the eternal life promised by each group. And he’s the moral core of the film, really - one that accepts his foibles and his weaknesses as part of his humanity.

That isn’t to say the Church is shown to be evil, but then nor are the vampires - we also sympathise and like the two surviving vampires in the final scene.

If there is one purely good character, it would be Annie, the hoodoo practitioner - her magic works, and her priorities are always love and protecting those she does.

4 upvotes on reddit

Dianagorgon · 29 days ago

I almost cried at that part. Sinners was such an amazing movie.

3 upvotes on reddit

cheesaremorgia · 1 month ago

Exactly. It’s a horror movie about racism with some vampires for flavour, not a horror movie about vampires.

178 upvotes on reddit

Lobo_o · 1 month ago

I think the movie explicitly avoids this truth being exclusive to black people. Which is the point of having the Asian store owners, and an Irish vampire speaking on the oppression he faced as a human. They diversified those who were at the mercy of the powers that be for that very reason and put more under the umbrella instead of leaving more out in the rain.

100 upvotes on reddit

js4873 · 1 month ago

This is why it ranks up there with rosemarys baby and psycho and vertigo. Yes it’s got spooky and scary stuff. But it’s ABOUT much more.

13 upvotes on reddit

Ascarea · 1 month ago

Which only brings home to me how unnecessary the vampires are. I loved the movie until they showed up.

-4 upvotes on reddit

patient-palanquin · 1 month ago

It's a tragedy. It shows humanity's resilience in the face of darkness, the ability to still find joy and community together. Everyone knows it's doomed, but they decide it's worth it anyways. That's what it means to be human.

69 upvotes on reddit

someguyonlinedotca · 1 month ago

Maybe it can be related to Camus, in that with the absurdity of life, one must imagine Sisyphus happy?

15 upvotes on reddit

goddamnitwhalen · 1 month ago

Somebody in a different discussion thread also pointed out this tragic detail: Stack should see his brother when he looks at himself because they’re twins. But because he’s a vampire, he has no reflection.

Just adds another layer of heartbreak to the whole thing.

351 upvotes on reddit

rileymacrae · 1 month ago

The systems create an impenetrable, multilayered web of oppression for that community. The point was not that the Joint was doomed, but that they were able to find a fleeting moment of freedom and joy and community in the first place.

It's not an accident that Smoke and Stack don't play by the rules and were (for a short time) able to rise high enough to create a space for their community who are trapped by the very systems that sought to destroy the Juke Joint.

That film is a masterpiece.

44 upvotes on reddit

ganner · 1 month ago

Yeah, my mind immediately went to the final scene with old Sammie. "You know something? Maybe once a week, I wake up paralyzed reliving that night. But before the sun went down, I think that was the best day of my life. Was it like that for you?"

27 upvotes on reddit

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r/exmuslim • [5]

Summarize

Sinners was so freaking cathartic

Posted by Novel_Coast6386 · in r/exmuslim · 3 months ago

I watched it last night and while I had some problems with it, I did like how it was about questioning religion. The main character Sammie even sings a song called ‘I Lied To You.’ >!It’s about him lying to his dad who’s a preacher about believing in God and retaining all the knowledge about text and scripture so he could go hang out with his cousins at their club and play blues music which was considered devilish during the time the movie is set.!<

>!When Sammie walks into to the church the next day, he’s carrying a broken guitar neck all scarred and limping. It’s also when he realizes that he can’t count on God to save him anymore. The guitar’s broken because he used it to fight off the Irish vampire guy. Instead of giving a give a shit about his own son getting mauled, his dad insists that he let go of the guitar the moment he sees him. Because the guitar saved his life, he ends up leaving the church and drives away and lives a long life becoming a musician like he’s always dreamed of!<.

>!I loved how the vampires were an allegory to show the way that Christianity has spread to Black Americans and Irish folk via imperialism. They had no choice but to convert in order to survive which is also the case with Islam. It’s unfortunate we’ll never get a movie critiquing Islam like that because it’ll automatically be met with fatwas and be deemed xenophobic by Western liberals.!<

But yeah those were my thoughts about and to anyone who’s seen it, feel free to comment below.

10 upvotes on reddit

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Pleasant-Reach-4942 · 3 months ago

Another cynical Hollywood movie.

-1 upvotes on reddit

Yuucliwood · 3 months ago

Cynical how?

1 upvotes on reddit

Pleasant-Reach-4942 · 3 months ago

By stating that Christianity spread to blacks and the Irish though imperialism. I am black, and I am a Christian voluntarily. The statement is also historically inaccurate. Christianity did not spread to Ireland through imperialism. Ireland was actually one of the first countries to ever convert, and it was voluntary. Hollywood produces crap.

1 upvotes on reddit

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r/SinnersFilm • [6]

Summarize

Thoughts on Jedediah Moore.

Posted by Invisibleagejoy · in r/SinnersFilm · 1 month ago

Sinners is the best movie I’ve seen in several years. I am obsessed with the deep dive into its symbolism. I’d love to hear thoughts people have on Sammy’s dad.

i.redd.it

18 upvotes on reddit

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New-Bluebird-859 · 1 month ago

Jedediah was the opposite side of the coin from Remmick. That’s why Sammie flashed back to him in the opening scene when Jed was begging him to “leave his sinful ways behind”.

Both offered Sammie “salvation”, if only he would give up his dreams and use his voice for their purposes. Instead of choosing between God and the devil, Sammie chose himself.

7 upvotes on reddit

Invisibleagejoy · OP · 1 month ago

Oof yup this is what I couldn’t put my finger on. Watching it for around the fourth time last it’s stuck out to me that Remnick kept saying the word fellowship. But I leaned towards the narrative that Remick represents white assimilation. But now I can see a combination they’re both assimilation.

2 upvotes on reddit

Off_the_shelf_elf · 1 month ago

I think you nailed it.

1 upvotes on reddit

bigbigbigbootyhoes · 1 month ago

Played by favorite poet Saul Williams

2 upvotes on reddit

Off_the_shelf_elf · 1 month ago

I have nothing to add that has not already been said better, but can we just appreciate how beautifully framed and awesomely ominous this shot is? Every time they show Jedidiah they use especially heavy, dramatic lighting that feels eerily out of place in a brightly painted church with all the happy singing and sunny preaching.

2 upvotes on reddit

princessGApeach · 1 month ago

He’s lowkey a bum for leaving his family out in the field while he ponders the Bible all day every day

4 upvotes on reddit

Invisibleagejoy · OP · 1 month ago

Thanks everybody who replied so far this is what I’ve taken from it. Let me know if there’s more.

He was the opposite side of the coin from Remick belonging and safety, but with a cost

There is some meat to the idea that he was not working in the fields. We don’t know was he injured? Did he work in the fields for 30 years before this? But he wasn’t doing it now and his children are and probably his grandchildren.

There’s something important about the fact that he did not hit them. The idea that wrong isn’t always obvious. But also in a sense he was right too because if Sammy had stayed home and worked on the sermon, everybody would be fine.

I often think about the fact that the life story of a black man in the 1930s in Mississippi was not a kind and friendly story. There was no great option. Remick and Jedidiah both offered easy solutions at a very high price.

I also know that he is the most black and white right and wrong style character. Church good blues bad. Stay the course status quo. Love God or die. Every other character has a great depth. I wonder if in anyway, that is an homage to having to set down critical thinking and wide open eyes in order to live a life that is permitted by society.

2 upvotes on reddit

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r/TrueFilm • [7]

Summarize

I think I had a different interpretation of Sinners

Posted by Ok-Location-9910 · in r/TrueFilm · 3 months ago

Here’s what I took from it, and I’m going to speaking as an English person descended from Irish people. Both of these facts are important to my interpretation of the film.

English people have folk music. We have beautiful songs that sing of briar and bramble, and rise and fall like the flight of swallows. They came from the fields and mines and factories. They beautifully encapsulate the spirit of England and its history. Very few English people are aware that it exists. Why? Because, in my opinion, England (or at least the rich of England) effectively sold its soul for power, casting off its pagan roots and spilling blood to build an empire while growing distant from its own humanity (like a certain vampire).

Now let’s compare to Ireland. Ireland is a nation that for centuries has been stripped of its culture, its language, its identity. And yet it held on. It refused to bend the knee and be assimilated, retaining its humanity even when they had to fight tooth and nail.

I view Remmick as a metaphor for how losing touch with your culture leaves you feeling empty, leading you to seek out and appropriate other cultures just to feel something.

43 upvotes on reddit

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Solid-Recognition736 · 3 months ago

Yes, it is a saga about the sorrow song through the lens of black americans, but the sorrow song is a cultural standby through many different groups - irish immigrants, protest singers, indigenous folk, etc.

49 upvotes on reddit

Ok-Location-9910 · OP · 3 months ago

Exactly, Sammy’s greatest power in the film is his ability to connect to ancestors and descendants through music, it’s literally what Remmick needs him for. Remmick tries to do the same with his own music, but he’s so cut off from his culture he needs to force others to do it for him.

23 upvotes on reddit

thatshygirl06 · 3 months ago

Thank you for saying black americans instead of African Americans, I appreciate it.

7 upvotes on reddit

utilitarianbeing · 3 months ago

Really quick reply over here, but the film gave me no real evidence to believe Remmick was 'evil' as such, because he was quite astute as far as his own cultural heritage was concerned (wild mountain thyme, rocky road). Basically the people who are the most cultivated are often also the most 'humble' in that they realize there's much more to be done in collaboration with other masters. It takes one to know one, and that's why Remmick was able to identify Sammie and was fascinated by him, not only due to Sammie's ability to help him develop and reconnect with his own Irish culture, but to essentially 'combine' their songs together. Culture is simply a different perspective on nature die to the unique circumstances we are born in, and the ultimate goal is to seamlessly unify our understanding into a greater 'whole' that is a syncretic evolution of the best of our individual cultivations. That's exactly what Remmick was trying to do, and even says that Sammie will share his songs with him, as he will share his with Sammie, and they'll make beautiful music together.

The rocky road song actually seems to be the most popular one from the film based on you tube views, and you can see the almost Ari Aster's midsommar-like ecstasy Remmick feels when his song finally combined and resonates with that of the African-American community, some of whose cultural themes are incorporated into the music, but he needs Sammie to make it truly great. The way the movie frames the vampires actually is kind of epic just as killmonger was kind of epic, and I feel like Coogler deliberately makes great anti-villians who have a very good and plausibly better plan than the protagonist, and then deliberately brings them down so that people empathize with them and talk about how they had a point, and also to maintain his reputation with the status quo, because he would otherwise be classified in the exact same vein as Ari Aster, who is quite polarizing as far as the mainstream is concerned.

8 upvotes on reddit

CartographerDry6896 · 3 months ago

For sure, the Irish were colonised by the British. This is why Remmick is offering Stacks a vision beyond earth because they share the kinship of both being mistreated and stripped of their culture. Although, it's slightly paradoxical as no doubt Remmick is also attempting to strip African-Americans of Blues culture. He is both the victim and the perpetrator.

26 upvotes on reddit

Ok-Location-9910 · OP · 3 months ago

Yes, it’s a vicious cycle

8 upvotes on reddit

morroIan · 3 months ago

> I view Remmick as a metaphor for how losing touch with your culture leaves you feeling empty, leading you to seek out and appropriate other cultures just to feel something.

I don't think this is a different interpretation to others, its perfectly in line with most readings of the film.

22 upvotes on reddit

SchemeOne2145 · 3 months ago

Another aspect is the cultural construction of whiteness in the U.S. Early on, Irish immigrants were lumped in with blacks and other non Anglo-Saxons and only over time became "white". Remmick is offering a somewhat appealing universal assimilation into the brotherhood of the vampires, but at the cost of your own culture.

7 upvotes on reddit

Various_Ambassador92 · 3 months ago

Just as a correction here - Irish were never literally considered "non-white". For a specific example look up the story of Nell Butler, an Irish woman who married an enslaved black man in Maryland before anti-miscegenation laws were passed there and the controversy and legal hubbub that followed.

Irish people obviously were discriminated against and seen as lesser, but they were still considered white.

2 upvotes on reddit

SchemeOne2145 · 3 months ago

Check this out, there's references to Irish immigrants being called "negroes turned inside out" https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/when-irish-immigrants-werent-considered-white.htm

4 upvotes on reddit

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r/okbuddycinephile • [8]

Summarize

In Sinners, what did the filmmaker mean with this text? Is this symbolism?

Posted by Lower_Love · in r/okbuddycinephile · 2 months ago

[removed]

27 upvotes on reddit

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https://preview.redd.it/jd8cf397pocf1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea04d8510696263fa31df7fb4bb7cef5f88427d4

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mcjunker · 2 months ago

This is a subtitle nod

2 upvotes on reddit

bbmpbribecollector · 2 months ago

That's actually a subtext you can read into it

2 upvotes on reddit

newspark1521 · 2 months ago

Movie diddle me

1 upvotes on reddit

Commie_Scum69 · 2 months ago

4 upvotes on reddit

Tolkien-Minority · 2 months ago

Bro got udders

3 upvotes on reddit

Fuzzy-Caterpillar718 · 2 months ago

Yes. A subtle reminder that we all need to read between the lines

5 upvotes on reddit

See 6 replies

r/TheSinner • [9]

Summarize

My thoughts on The Sinner Season 3

Posted by theragingcactusman · in r/TheSinner · 5 years ago

I just finished Jamie's season and have to agree that it was slightly weaker than previous seasons. I already thought Julian's season was somewhat of a step down, but the mystery aspect of the show will keep me interested because it usually comes up with great twists.

This season had intriguing themes and a great setup. I'm more than okay with the show trying to do something different this season. Not seeing the accident until the end of episode one was a highlight and the premiere episode in general was very chilling. The acting in this show seems to constantly be great and that remains true in here. The actors all did great with what material they had.

I did feel like the season lacked subversion in the narrative. I understand hat this season was more of a thriller than a mystery (which I think is kind of awesome), but the surprises are kind of what keep me interested in episodes of the Sinner. It was a pretty straightforward story overall and especially the last episodes lacked surprises. This brings other things to focus on which doesn't always work this season as some of the elements were weak. The character of Jamie wasn't very well written. His existential crisis ad philosophical inner conflicts were a major part of this season and while it was interesting to see how those themes were explored, a lot of times he just came across as too dramatic or an 'edge-lord'. The dialogue wasn't always very believable at all when it came to his character.

I did however enjoy his transformation. The episode where him and the detective go to a party was a highlight for me and there were great moments throughout this season - sometimes interrupted by small chunks of over the top, CW quality writing.

I enjoyed seeing The Sinner's take on a thriller but it was a pretty tame one, lacking an element of surprise which I loved from previous seasons. Maybe the show might just work better as a mystery, as nice as it was to have a change of pace.

If I had to give it a score...

6/10

It wasn't as bad as some people are saying, but it was definitely a drop in quality from two previous strong seasons.

12 upvotes on reddit

7 replies

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7 replies

Thragedium · 4 years ago

The subversion comes right in the end, when you realize that Harry was becoming Jamie, fulfilling the overall theme of the show. James, never getting over his emptiness, asked Nick for help only to realize he was the abyss staring back, and killed him when he became aware that Nick was never going to stop. Harry, realizing that Jamie would never stop, also felt that he had to kill him. The way Jamie dies by blood loss with Harry by his side crying with regret mirrors Nicks death. Both men killed to be free, but in the end Jamie was consumed by his actions. The curtain falls with Harry pondering on the prospect of his actions.

I also felt it was the weaker season, but the final buildup and ending did gain some points for me once I realized what was happened.

1 upvotes on reddit

Ancient_Kaa · 4 years ago

I got that but they meandered so far with something that felt pretty obvious I thought. Jamie suddenly becoming a killer didn't make much sense to me either.

Setting up the whole thing with Nick and Nietzsche was odd; ok so you, a school teacher realise morality is a human construct and thus you are all powerful to... Um. Murder artists in the woods. And... Um... What? Maybe I'm missing something there. I agree morality doesn't come from a higher power but to completely ignore it you get... What?

Which isn't to say you might not go off the deep end but why randomly start killing? Maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't seem to mesh right somehow. If you wanted to have Harry move deeper into some nihilistic self-destructive thing this just felt like a lazy way to do it. It was interesting and a change of pace but somehow none of it seemed to gel for me

1 upvotes on reddit

Active-Hovercraft123 · 8 months ago

But maybe that was what they were trying to show. Some empty psychopath trying to exalt themselves through empty oversimplified "philosophy".

In the end Nick was just an self-important Edge Lord, a psychopath who tried to exalt himself and his emptiness and destructive urges through some typical Edge Lord pseudo-philosophy.

Jamie never managed to separate himself mentally and psychologically from Nick.

Jamie had his own mental problems and didn't have the mental capacity (or willingness) to see through the smokescreen, which ultimately makes him a weak character (Nick dominated him and exploited Jamie's problems).

But boy, did I find it annoying how Jamie is trying to lecture everyone about being hypocrites and this and that - but actually he is the biggest hypocrite of them all. Like, dude... how serious can you take yourself?

People who act that much holier-than-thou and no outsider can possibly understand my - THE - truth... I just get the Ick (no matter the context, its the same for ppl wanting to be " edgy baddies" than "goodies")

1 upvotes on reddit

rainbowchameleon · 3 years ago

I'm so late to the party with this comment but I only just watched it. I have known a few people, one in particular, I could imagine turning out like Jamie, and another like Nick (possibly two if dealt different cards with upbringing), if you played things out to the extreme. I think it you've not experienced people who you can see in the characters on some level I can see how extrapolating to their behaviour in the plot wouldn't make as much sense.

People who are very twisted up, and/or have antisocial personality disorder (psychopathic/sociopathic spectrum). And have had vulnerable conversations with them about their experiences and ways of thinking plus witnessed their behaviour and ways of making decisions, acting out, etc. As a contrast, none of it struck me as particularly unrealistic nor didn't make sense. Also how one person could groom another who's more vulnerable into doing things they'd never have dreamed of before and once they have done something once then doing it again.

1 upvotes on reddit

Sufidil · 1 year ago

Simple answer: take deep philosophical ideas and in a rather American way make them about murder! So, existentialism gives you a carte blanche to take OTHER people's lives, while YOU'RE the one who has to face the fear!

1 upvotes on reddit

noir-82 · 5 years ago

Now that I think about it perhaps the twist / reveal is reversed. Hollywood usually uses huge diabolical twists for shock factor but perhaps this show reversed it. They built it like it was some psychological mastermind in the making challenging philosophies and the boundaries of courage, when in the end, SPOILER ALERT: dying in the arms of Harry, he was as normal and as afraid as any simple guy can be. It was one of the most memorable scenes of that series for me.

2 upvotes on reddit

TheOGJustAnotherNoob · 1 year ago

I'm late to this one but I've gotta say that from about episode 4 it just became annoying.... some truly terrible writing that just doesn't match up to the previous 2 seasons.

Some of the characters' behaviour was just plain stupid. When your cop Dad calls to say "get out of the house" only an idiot doesn't jump into action and ask questions while on the move. Similarly the dumb artist who decides to ignore his advice TWICE and puts her life in danger. And then the pathetic trauma bonding at the end between Harry and afore-mentioned dumb artist. He deals in facts and risks every day of his life so what made the writer think he would partner up with such an annoying dreamer?

And some of the scenes just didn't seem to contribute anything of any real value... just filling time in the absence of decent / strong story-line.

Here's hoping that Season 4 is a return to the previous high standard.

1 upvotes on reddit

See 7 replies

r/SquaredCircle • [10]

Summarize

Damian Priest New Theme – Sinner

Posted by goldennuggetjr · in r/SquaredCircle · 3 years ago

youtu.be

3 upvotes on reddit

7 replies

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7 replies

goldennuggetjr · OP · 3 years ago

Def Rebel really loves choir vocals in their themes.

6 upvotes on reddit

CoffinDrip · 3 years ago

It’s not bad but definitely not as good as his original theme. That song was perfect for him.

8 upvotes on reddit

[deleted] · 3 years ago

Man, WWE is getting absolutely fleeced paying for all of these generic themes that all sound the same.

0 upvotes on reddit

Low-Subject-3374 · 3 years ago

Prove they all sound the same?

1 upvotes on reddit

[deleted] · 3 years ago

Unclog your ears

1 upvotes on reddit

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1 upvotes on reddit

LanoomR · 3 years ago

This just comes off as an inferior, tuneless version of his original "Infamy" NXT theme, to me. Still conveys the same exact same mood and fits the current "oh he has a MEAN side" schtick, just with less oomph and memorable-ness.

4 upvotes on reddit

See 7 replies

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